Deanna (lemoncoatedafterworld, for the uninitiated) is in need of some infoz about politics.

Deanna is doing a debate on the use of rhetoric and its role in pushing certain ideologies. Her particular contribution for the group deals with political parties and the way in which prominent members who are in danger of ousting sometimes change their controversial views to be reaccepted into the party. For example, take John McCain and notice the difference between his criticism of Bush's response to the 9/11 attacks and his policy in general during his first term and the way he follows much more closely with Republican party lines today. Guliani is a similar example.

She would like a few examples for the Democratic party, as well. If you know of any prominent left-wingers who have previously endangered themselves from being ousted from the Democratic (or any other) party but who changed their views to keep in line with the popularity that remaining under the canopy of a large political group brings, list their names here along with a brief description of what happened. The time period, or even the nation or party, is not a factor, although she would prefer more well-known examples than less well-known.

Thank you for your help, all.

That's tough. There inability to nail down a "party line" is part of what gives the Dems so much trouble. Essentially, everyone goes in their own direction and never agrees on it.

Look at a few of the statements that Howard Dean has made since being the head of the Democratic party. He speaks, and then a third of the democrats all issues statements saying "Howard Dean doesn't speak for me."

Maybe Liberman and his support for the war ... but of course, he hasn't changed his views to an anti-war stance, so he doesn't fit your example.

My personal view, I think Democrats try to follow what they think is best and not what is politically advantageous, at least not as much as the Republicans, so it's harder to find a Democratic example of views going one way or the other.

Of course, you could always dig up Kerry's voting record and call him a flip-flopper.

Neither party is worth a damn and you know it, B.

Dennis Kucunich was adamantly pro-life until just before he decided to run for President. I suppose that would count.

Hillary Clinton positioning herself as less pro-choice is the same deal. Bush becoming anti-affirmative action. Bill Clinton becoming more pro-death penalty.

And so on.

I've noticed it in Dean quite a bit since he won the chair of the party. He's gone from being outspoken, but being Howard Dean, to being a loudspeaker for the party, and sounding more like a MoveOn spammail half the time.

I think the distinction has to be made between changing to what is more politically advantageous, and what is consistent with the party line. On the right, the two are much more often the same thing. On the left, when pols try to act in a politically advantageous manner (or what they perceive to be so), they tend to move more towards the center or right. I think this is because regardless of the politics of the general population, there will always be more people who are scared of the far left than there are who are scared of the far right. Fear being the key factor.

Truer words have never been spoken.

ideally, what i'd like to have would be an example of someone who was highly critical of clinton and then switched their stance to be supportive of him when he was either up for re-election or was in the impechment process.

the reason i'd like democrats is because this isn't designed to be a republican-bashing debate. we thought it would be more fair and possibly less offensive to the group as a whole if we also used examples from the democratic party.

I don't consider myself a Democrat, but I still don't believe that.

Teddy Kennedy and Russ Feingold are kind of merely OK. Obama has potential to be merely OK too. The rest can kiss my ass.

(sorry I'm not exactly provoking thoughtful debate here)

someone help me start digging up quotations now.

i need some quotes where giuliani is very criticial of bush, especially after september 11. i know it happened, because i remember hearing it. i have all the quotes i need of him being supportive of the president during the re-election campaign.

i'm trying to dig up some john mccain quotations of a similar fashion, too, but all i'm finding are those inspirational sort of things and that's not even close to what i want.

whatever you've got on democrats would be helpful too. i'm stressing out a little bit here.

look for McCain-Fiengold bill. That was the bill that led to the generation of the 527's - where everyone put their money into (like MoveOn). Bush wasn't into limiting campaign contributions at first, like McCain, and McCain ended up convincing Bush (or elbowing Bush) to approve limitations.

Lieberman was overtly critical of Clinton's perjury - he got on the floor of the Senate and declared the President "deplorable." BUT he did NOT vote to have him removed from office.

Zel (?) Miller is a good example of a Democratic line-tower. I'll look up some stuff on the internet on him- he supposedly spoke at the Republican National Convention and tore the Dems a new asshole during that speech.

Lieberman is all for the war, and he's a Democrat.

There's a Senator in Rhode Island, one in Minnesota, and one in Maine that were just suggested to me to look up. They're supposedly closet Dems.

instead of trying to find anectdoal evidence and quotes, look at facts.

http://www.voteview.com/

john mccain has not become more conservative in recent years, he's always been a conservative.

some might argue more so than W. Bush

Big groups of Britain's Labour Party pay out Blair's policy initiatives all the time about issues like civil liberties, higher education, the health system and of course, the Iraq War. Inevitably they stay within the Labour Party and not form a breakaway because the recognise the strength of the third way economics that underpin New Labour, something that's won them election after election, routing the Conservatives year after year.

I used to be a registered Democrat and must agree.

You are speaking of Lincoln Chaffee (R-RI), Norm Coleman (R-MN) and both Senators from Maine (Snowe and Collins are both pretty liberal Republican women).

As for Democrats on the right side of the party, I'd look to Nelson (D-NE), Byrd (D-WV), Lincoln (D-AR), Landrieu (D-LA), Salazar (D-CO), and of course Joe Lieberman.

Ah yes, I forgot about that douche. Damn well nearly filibustered the Civil Rights Act. Big time opponent of the Iraq war too.