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 Post subject: What's With Those Crazy California Doctors?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Here's the story if you're not up on it:

http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_053195727.html

Quote:
Controversy Could End California Executions

Rafer Weigel
Reporting

(AP) SAN FRANCISCO The state's postponement of an execution because no medical professional would take part amounts to a moratorium on capital punishment in California, home to the nation's largest death row, and could have implications for other states that use lethal injection.

Michael Morales, 46, was scheduled to die Tuesday by injection for torturing, raping and murdering a 17-year-old girl 25 years ago. But officials at San Quentin State Prison could not meet the demands of a federal judge who ordered licensed medical personnel to take part in the execution. Because of ethical considerations, there were no takers, and the execution was called off.

The reprieve meant California, with 650 condemned inmates, awoke Wednesday to what effectively was a moratorium on executions.

The case may eventually place the issue of lethal injection before the U.S. Supreme Court. Thirty-seven of the 38 states with capital punishment use a procedure similar to California's.

The high court has yet to weigh in on a question that inmates around the country have been raising in recent years: whether lethal injection is unconstitutionally cruel and unusual.

Last week's ruling in the Morales case by U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel shifted the debate subtly to whether licensed medical personnel should play an active role in an execution, something the American Medical Association and other medical groups have long opposed on ethical grounds.

"This is an issue that is ultimately going to have to be resolved by the Supreme Court," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. "Because you're ultimately not likely ever going to have doctors in the execution chamber."

In California and other states with lethal injection, licensed medical experts generally do not take part in the execution itself, other than to pronounce a prisoner dead. In California, the intravenous lines are inserted by prison staff trained specifically for that purpose. The drugs are then added by a machine.

Natasha Minsker, a capital punishment expert with the American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes the death penalty, said she believes a prison may be breaking the law by using executioners who do not have proper medical credentials.

"There are limits on practicing medicine with controlled substances," she said. "It appears prison personnel in this are breaking the law because they are not licensed to do this."

Fogel will hold hearings in May on whether California's method of execution is cruel and unusual punishment. Until that is resolved, neither Morales nor any other California death row inmate is likely to be executed unless licensed medical personnel step forward.

The next inmate in line, Mitchell Sims, 45, is on death row for killing a pizza delivery man in 1985. His final appeal rests with the U.S. Supreme Court. No execution date has been set.

California, like most states, carries out lethal injection with three separate drugs _ one to relax them, another to paralyze them and a third to stop their hearts.

Morales' attorneys claimed that once a sedative is given the prisoner, he may feel excruciating pain if still conscious when the paralyzing agent is administered. The federal judge, in response, ordered a licensed anesthesiologist to be on hand to ensure that wouldn't happen.

In the alternative, the judge said the prison could use just a sedative to execute the inmate, but it would have to be injected by a licensed practitioner, a group that includes doctors, nurses, dentists, paramedics and other medical technicians.

But two anesthesiologists refused to take part in Morale's execution, citing ethical concerns. And the prison could not find a medical professional willing to administer the one-drug injection.

"I have no doubt that every inmate nearing execution will glom onto this," said Kent Scheidegger, director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, a pro-capital punishment group. "But I can't imagine the Supreme Court requiring a state to do something that can't be done."


I'm for abolishing the death penalty, but it seems that if it were unconstitutional to kill someone w/o ensuring painlessness, we would have stopped executing people a long time ago. I hope I'm wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:38 pm 
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How in the hell is a lethal injection cruel and unusual?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:48 pm 
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Buffalohed wrote:
How in the hell is a lethal injection cruel and unusual?


I think this is their beef

Quote:
California, like most states, carries out lethal injection with three separate drugs _ one to relax them, another to paralyze them and a third to stop their hearts.

Morales' attorneys claimed that once a sedative is given the prisoner, he may feel excruciating pain if still conscious when the paralyzing agent is administered.


I had no idea there were 3 stages to a lethal injection. Personally i'm not big on the death penalty either, but i'll be goddamned if i'm going to concern myself with the welfare of somebody who rapes, tortures and kills a person.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:51 pm 
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Buffalohed wrote:
How in the hell is a lethal injection cruel and unusual?


Call me crazy, but some people actually think killing someone is cruel.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:08 pm 
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Well, this is a unique way to go around it. Maybe California can import doctors from other states, then. :P


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:14 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
Well, this is a unique way to go around it. Maybe California can import doctors from other states, then. :P


They should just outsource the whole lethal injection industry to the UAE.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:22 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
Well, this is a unique way to go around it. Maybe California can import doctors from other states, then. :P


All doctors fall under the AMA. If the AMA is against it, I'd think doctors from any state wouldn't want to do this.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:26 pm 
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Buggy wrote:
Buffalohed wrote:
How in the hell is a lethal injection cruel and unusual?


Call me crazy, but some people actually think killing someone is cruel.

I guess that would make sending someone to prison for many years cruel as well. Forcing someone to go to court and be publicly judged and convicted is cruel as well. Fining people is cruel, as is keeping people in a cell until they post a bail.

Everything is cruel.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:31 pm 
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Jesus wrote:
All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

Then the King will say to those on His right, "Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me."

Then the righteous will answer Him, "Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?"

The King will answer and say to them, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."


Actually, Matthew wrote that, but he was quoting Jesus.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:17 pm 
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If they went back to the electric chair, they wouldn't need doctors. A kid can operate one of those things.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:55 pm 
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B wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Well, this is a unique way to go around it. Maybe California can import doctors from other states, then. :P


All doctors fall under the AMA. If the AMA is against it, I'd think doctors from any state wouldn't want to do this.


Except California's getting all the attention...so far.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:31 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
B wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Well, this is a unique way to go around it. Maybe California can import doctors from other states, then. :P


All doctors fall under the AMA. If the AMA is against it, I'd think doctors from any state wouldn't want to do this.


Except California's getting all the attention...so far.


Well, that's b/c they're the only state that found it cruel and unusual to paralyze someone's heart w/o a doctor verifying that the prison is actually unconscious and feeling no pain. As I understand it, other states only require a doctor to pronounce death, not be an active participant of the execution (which is what the doctors have beef with).

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