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 Post subject: Baker/Hamilton Iraq Study Group
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:23 am 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061207/ap_ ... s_iraq_168

Quote:
President Bush's war policies have failed in almost every regard, the bipartisan Iraq Study Group concluded Wednesday, and it warned of dwindling chances to change course before crisis turns to chaos.


Full Report: http://wid.ap.org/documents/iraq/2006isg_report.pdf (Please read all 160 pages before partaking in this debate. :P )

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:25 am 
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It said the United States should find ways to pull back most of its combat forces by early 2008 and focus U.S. troops on training and supporting Iraqi units. The U.S. also should begin a "diplomatic offensive" by the end of the month and engage adversaries Iran and Syria in an effort to quell sectarian violence and shore up the fragile Iraqi government, the report said.


I can get behind this plan.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:54 pm 
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I haven't read the report in its entirety, but I thought this article was worth including. President Bush has said that he finds many of the recommendations in the Study Group's report useful, but the goal will not change. He also said that he is awaiting for reports from other agencies and will make decisions based on the opinions from various sources. Nevertheless, failure, President Bush said, is not an option, and I could not agree more.



Bush: to Win in Iraq, Beat Extremists

By DEB RIECHMANN
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON


President Bush, standing alongside chief Iraq war ally Tony Blair of Britain, asserted Thursday that success in Iraq depends on victory over extremists across the "broader Middle East."

"It's a tough time and its a difficult moment for America and Great Britain and the task before us is daunting," Bush said a day after a bipartisan commission said his war policies have failed and called for a change in strategy.

The British prime minister, who has stood shoulder to shoulder with Bush since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, said he welcomed the conclusions of the Iraq Study Group despite its criticism of past policies.

It "offers a strong way forward," Blair said. He said "the consequences of failure are severe."

Bush appeared to endorse the panel's conclusion that any resolution of the Iraq conflict is tied to reducing tensions between Israel and the Palestinians and across the broader Middle East _ a position Blair has long held.

But in Tel Aviv, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he disagreed with the advisory group's linkage. He told a news conference that conditions were not ripe to reopen long-dormant talks with Syria.

"I appreciate your clear view that we are confronted with a struggle between moderation and extremism and this is particularly evident in the broader Middle East," Bush told Blair.

Both Bush and Blair said that supporting the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki was central to efforts to help Iraq defend, govern and sustain itself.

"The American people expect us to come up with a new strategy," Bush said.

"I believe we need a new approach and that's why I've tasked the Pentagon to analyze the way forward," he said. In addition to the Iraq Study Group, studies are under way at the Pentagon, State Department and National Security Council on next steps.

The response made it clear that Bush did not intend to be influenced only by the bipartisan panel's report, which contained 79 specific recommendations, but by the other studies as well.

One of the study group's central recommendations was for the administration to reach out to Syria and Iran for help in stabilizing Iraq, a course Bush has rejected in the past.

"Countries that participate in talks must not fund terrorism, must help the young democracy survive, must help with the economics of the country," Bush said. "If people are not committed, if Syria and Iran is not committed to that concept, then they shouldn't bother to show up."

For his part, Blair suggested that Iran's support for Shiite militants in southern Iraq presented a problem. "Iran has been...basically arming, supporting, financing terrorism," the visiting British leader said.

Blair said the terrorists' threat in Iraq is part of an old pattern that is region-wide. Terrorism "has basically come out of the Middle East" and must be addressed in a way that includes a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, he said.

"It's bad in Iraq," Bush said. "I've been telling the American people how tough it is and they understand how tough it is. The question is, 'Do we have the ability to change as the enemy has changed?' "

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/07/D8LS49T00.html


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:38 pm 
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Beating extremists is only slightly less possible than beating tribbles.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:41 pm 
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B wrote:
Beating extremists is only slightly less possible than beating tribbles.

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:shock:

Send Harry Mudd!!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:52 am 
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LeninFlux wrote:
I haven't read the report in its entirety, but I thought this article was worth including. President Bush has said that he finds many of the recommendations in the Study Group's report useful, but the goal will not change. He also said that he is awaiting for reports from other agencies and will make decisions based on the opinions from various sources. Nevertheless, failure, President Bush said, is not an option, and I could not agree more.


wow, failure is not an option? That is sooo revealing!! OH MY GOD, now we know what to do!! I have to say, that took some true guts for you to admit that you agree with that statement...I mean, I am a big fan of failure, but to hear that our prez is not, wow. I am reassured that he really has a grasp on reality now. You and him have shown me the light. And surely, hidden within that statement is a plan for how to achieve success, right?

:arrow:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:54 am 
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Let's see, it's the 4th quarter, we're down by 21 points and we have 20 seconds left. What does the coach say during are last timeout? "Losing is not an option, go back on the field and throw the ball!"

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:21 am 
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track12 wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
I haven't read the report in its entirety, but I thought this article was worth including. President Bush has said that he finds many of the recommendations in the Study Group's report useful, but the goal will not change. He also said that he is awaiting for reports from other agencies and will make decisions based on the opinions from various sources. Nevertheless, failure, President Bush said, is not an option, and I could not agree more.


wow, failure is not an option? That is sooo revealing!! OH MY GOD, now we know what to do!! I have to say, that took some true guts for you to admit that you agree with that statement...I mean, I am a big fan of failure, but to hear that our prez is not, wow. I am reassured that he really has a grasp on reality now. You and him have shown me the light. And surely, hidden within that statement is a plan for how to achieve success, right?

:arrow:


If you caught any of President Bush's joint press conference with Prime Minister Tony Blair, you'd know that President Bush is not divorced from reality...he said that things in Iraq were "bad." He also acknowledged that changes were needed and that he was not at all satisfied with the progress that has been made in Iraq.
That being said, he is also aware of the consequences of failure. This, by the way, is also acknowledged by the Iraq Study Group. President Bush is going to give a speech by the end of the year that will outline the new direction the effort in Iraq will take. Like I said, he has other opinions to look over. I would bet that the bar for "success" is going to be lowered, but the goal of an Iraq that can govern, sustain and defend itself will not change. What will change is how we are going to accomplish that goal. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks.
Personally, I'm not advocating an open-ended commitment with no light at the end of the tunnel either. However, if you are ready to toss in the towel without considering the consequences of doing so, then I don't think you've thought this through very well.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:08 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
track12 wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
I haven't read the report in its entirety, but I thought this article was worth including. President Bush has said that he finds many of the recommendations in the Study Group's report useful, but the goal will not change. He also said that he is awaiting for reports from other agencies and will make decisions based on the opinions from various sources. Nevertheless, failure, President Bush said, is not an option, and I could not agree more.


wow, failure is not an option? That is sooo revealing!! OH MY GOD, now we know what to do!! I have to say, that took some true guts for you to admit that you agree with that statement...I mean, I am a big fan of failure, but to hear that our prez is not, wow. I am reassured that he really has a grasp on reality now. You and him have shown me the light. And surely, hidden within that statement is a plan for how to achieve success, right?

:arrow:


If you caught any of President Bush's joint press conference with Prime Minister Tony Blair, you'd know that President Bush is not divorced from reality...he said that things in Iraq were "bad." He also acknowledged that changes were needed and that he was not at all satisfied with the progress that has been made in Iraq.
That being said, he is also aware of the consequences of failure. This, by the way, is also acknowledged by the Iraq Study Group. President Bush is going to give a speech by the end of the year that will outline the new direction the effort in Iraq will take. Like I said, he has other opinions to look over. I would bet that the bar for "success" is going to be lowered, but the goal of an Iraq that can govern, sustain and defend itself will not change. What will change is how we are going to accomplish that goal. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks.
Personally, I'm not advocating an open-ended commitment with no light at the end of the tunnel either. However, if you are ready to toss in the towel without considering the consequences of doing so, then I don't think you've thought this through very well.


http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2006/12/ ... ister.html

12/8/2006
Fruit Salad With the Prime Minister (The Neediest President in History, Part 2):


And so it was that James Baker III, oozing the kind of reptilian evil that we expect from the half-men, half-crocodiles that slither from the putrid pools of 41's inner circle, said to a Senate Committee regarding his Iraq Study Group's list of nearly four-score recommendations: "I hope we don't treat this like a fruit salad and say, `I like this, but I don't like that, I like this, but I don't like that.'" Yes, Baker was there to save the nation from Iraq and 43 and 43 from himself, but no one gives a damn. When it's time for an empire to fall, it must fall. So when 41 became a weepy bitch over Jeb's imminent passage from public life, it was the pathetic whine of a fallen patrician, the end of the goddamn line.

For what was 43's press conference yesterday but a chance to hunch over in the ditch once more and toss dingleberries at the media, the degraded man, not so much a president anymore as a dalmatian, bred to be a proud-haunched firefighter mascot but merely capable of licking his own anus instead of actually saving anyone from an inferno.

Fruit salad? Hey, listening to Bush, Jr. yesterday one got the idea that we were watching a jiggly Jello mold with a coconut topping. It wasn't just the usual state-the-obvious-firmly lines: "[T]he Palestinian-Israeli conflict is important to have — is important to be solved." Or the bizarro dropped half-sentences that are more insulting than incoherent: "I talk to families who die." And it wasn't the moments where Bush demonstrated his ability to magically pull synonyms out of his ass: "I also believe we’re going to succeed. I believe we’ll prevail" (which was followed by a descent into Howard Hughes-like echolalia: "Not only do I know how important it is to prevail, I believe we will prevail. I understand how hard it is to prevail").

No, no, it was the nutzoid insistence on his ability to "understand" and "read" things that made Bush seem like he needed the approval of someone, anyone, at this point. From the ridiculous statement of "I understand what long deployments mean to wives and husbands, and mothers and fathers, particularly as we come into a holiday season" to the disturbing admission regarding the ISG report: "To show you how important this one is, I read it, and our guest read it. The Prime Minister read — read a report prepared by a commission. And this is important," it was part of a litany of demonstrating how great and wonderful he is, please love him.

But also how bugfuck insane. Said the President of the United States, once again, "And one of the things that has changed for American foreign policy is a threat overseas can now come home to hurt us, and September the 11th should be a wake-up call for the American people to understand what happens if there is violence and safe havens in a part of the world. And what happens is people can die here at home." Have we really, sadly, horribly not advanced in our thinking in the last five years past that?


Fruit salad? Hell, at this point, we'll be lucky to get out of the next two years without having all of our salads tossed.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 am 
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punkdavid wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
track12 wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
I haven't read the report in its entirety, but I thought this article was worth including. President Bush has said that he finds many of the recommendations in the Study Group's report useful, but the goal will not change. He also said that he is awaiting for reports from other agencies and will make decisions based on the opinions from various sources. Nevertheless, failure, President Bush said, is not an option, and I could not agree more.


wow, failure is not an option? That is sooo revealing!! OH MY GOD, now we know what to do!! I have to say, that took some true guts for you to admit that you agree with that statement...I mean, I am a big fan of failure, but to hear that our prez is not, wow. I am reassured that he really has a grasp on reality now. You and him have shown me the light. And surely, hidden within that statement is a plan for how to achieve success, right?

:arrow:


If you caught any of President Bush's joint press conference with Prime Minister Tony Blair, you'd know that President Bush is not divorced from reality...he said that things in Iraq were "bad." He also acknowledged that changes were needed and that he was not at all satisfied with the progress that has been made in Iraq.
That being said, he is also aware of the consequences of failure. This, by the way, is also acknowledged by the Iraq Study Group. President Bush is going to give a speech by the end of the year that will outline the new direction the effort in Iraq will take. Like I said, he has other opinions to look over. I would bet that the bar for "success" is going to be lowered, but the goal of an Iraq that can govern, sustain and defend itself will not change. What will change is how we are going to accomplish that goal. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks.
Personally, I'm not advocating an open-ended commitment with no light at the end of the tunnel either. However, if you are ready to toss in the towel without considering the consequences of doing so, then I don't think you've thought this through very well.


http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2006/12/ ... ister.html

12/8/2006
Fruit Salad With the Prime Minister (The Neediest President in History, Part 2):


And so it was that James Baker III, oozing the kind of reptilian evil that we expect from the half-men, half-crocodiles that slither from the putrid pools of 41's inner circle, said to a Senate Committee regarding his Iraq Study Group's list of nearly four-score recommendations: "I hope we don't treat this like a fruit salad and say, `I like this, but I don't like that, I like this, but I don't like that.'" Yes, Baker was there to save the nation from Iraq and 43 and 43 from himself, but no one gives a damn. When it's time for an empire to fall, it must fall. So when 41 became a weepy bitch over Jeb's imminent passage from public life, it was the pathetic whine of a fallen patrician, the end of the goddamn line.

For what was 43's press conference yesterday but a chance to hunch over in the ditch once more and toss dingleberries at the media, the degraded man, not so much a president anymore as a dalmatian, bred to be a proud-haunched firefighter mascot but merely capable of licking his own anus instead of actually saving anyone from an inferno.

Fruit salad? Hey, listening to Bush, Jr. yesterday one got the idea that we were watching a jiggly Jello mold with a coconut topping. It wasn't just the usual state-the-obvious-firmly lines: "[T]he Palestinian-Israeli conflict is important to have — is important to be solved." Or the bizarro dropped half-sentences that are more insulting than incoherent: "I talk to families who die." And it wasn't the moments where Bush demonstrated his ability to magically pull synonyms out of his ass: "I also believe we’re going to succeed. I believe we’ll prevail" (which was followed by a descent into Howard Hughes-like echolalia: "Not only do I know how important it is to prevail, I believe we will prevail. I understand how hard it is to prevail").

No, no, it was the nutzoid insistence on his ability to "understand" and "read" things that made Bush seem like he needed the approval of someone, anyone, at this point. From the ridiculous statement of "I understand what long deployments mean to wives and husbands, and mothers and fathers, particularly as we come into a holiday season" to the disturbing admission regarding the ISG report: "To show you how important this one is, I read it, and our guest read it. The Prime Minister read — read a report prepared by a commission. And this is important," it was part of a litany of demonstrating how great and wonderful he is, please love him.

But also how bugfuck insane. Said the President of the United States, once again, "And one of the things that has changed for American foreign policy is a threat overseas can now come home to hurt us, and September the 11th should be a wake-up call for the American people to understand what happens if there is violence and safe havens in a part of the world. And what happens is people can die here at home." Have we really, sadly, horribly not advanced in our thinking in the last five years past that?


Fruit salad? Hell, at this point, we'll be lucky to get out of the next two years without having all of our salads tossed.



This "blogger" is utterly clueless.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:45 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
This "blogger" is utterly clueless.


:lol: If you didn't use quotes, you'd be giving the Rude Pundit all the prestige and credibility that would otherwise be assumed of a member of the blogging community. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:13 am 
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LeninFlux wrote:
This "blogger" is utterly clueless.


And our President is simple-minded.

But I'm glad he decided to "read" the commission's report (or at least teh Cliff's Notes).

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:55 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
This "blogger" is utterly clueless.


And our President is simple-minded.

But I'm glad he decided to "read" the commission's report (or at least the Cliff's Notes).


Yup, realizing that leaving Iraq as a failed state and, very likely, a training ground of Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, is "simple minded." :arrow:

Again, clueless.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:40 pm 
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... d=rss.news

Iran Offers to Help U.S. Exit From Iraq
- By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer
Saturday, December 9, 2006

(12-09) 14:32 PST MANAMA, Bahrain (AP) --

Iran's foreign minister delivered a blunt challenge to the United States on Saturday, saying Tehran is willing to help U.S. troops withdraw from neighboring Iraq but only if Washington makes some tough policy changes.

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki claimed U.S. troops were responsible for at least half the violence tearing apart Iraq and that their departure would pay security dividends for the entire region.

"If the United States changes its attitude, the Islamic Republic of Iran is ready to help with the withdrawal from Iraq," Mottaki told the International Institute of Strategic Studies conference here. "Fifty percent of the problem of insecurity in Iraq is the presence of foreign troops."

Mottaki echoed calls made last week by Iran's top national security official, Ali Larijani, for Gulf Arab countries to eject American bases in their countries and establish a regional security pact with Iran. Mottaki went further and offered deeper cooperation with the six Gulf Arab states on energy, tourism, business and counter-narcotics.

Iran's offers do not seem to have tempted Gulf neighbors who are apparently more worried about the dangers of living near Iran's nuclear facilities, especially amid threats by Washington and Israel to use military force to destroy them.

Mottaki's forceful speech was a challenge to U.S. interests in the Gulf and a strong display of the country's rising assertiveness in the face of U.S failures in the region.

At one point, Mottaki addressed an international audience that included U.S. Vice Adm. David Nichols, the deputy chief of U.S. Central Command, and said the regional chaos sparked by the Bush administration's twin wars demonstrated that U.S. military force was no longer a realistic policy option in the Middle East.

"Today the time of threats is over. The period of unilateralism is over," Mottaki said. "Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. That gives us a very important lesson."

Iran's proposal for a Gulf security alliance shows no sign of gaining traction among the region's Arab leaders. Bahraini Foreign Minister Sheik Khalid bin Ahmed Al Khalifa said security of the energy-rich region depends on the United States, the European Union and other major oil-importing countries.

Much of the discussion at this security conference centered on the U.S. Iraq Study Group report, and its recommendation that Washington seek Iran's help in steering Iraq away from civil war.

William Cohen, defense secretary under President Clinton, urged Iran to push for talks with Washington.

"If you forgo aspirations for nuclear weapons and cut off funding for radical elements and support the Mideast peace process, then yes, you'd be welcomed into the international community. We'd have billions of dollars going into your economy," Cohen told the Iranians among 250 delegates from 22 countries.

"If Iran is simply interested in pursuing a nuclear energy program and not weapons, that's something the U.S. wouldn't object to and would support."

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:25 pm 
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ranting in e-minor wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/12/09/international/i122203S81.DTL&feed=rss.news

Iran Offers to Help U.S. Exit From Iraq
- By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer
Saturday, December 9, 2006

(12-09) 14:32 PST MANAMA, Bahrain (AP) --

Iran's foreign minister delivered a blunt challenge to the United States on Saturday, saying Tehran is willing to help U.S. troops withdraw from neighboring Iraq but only if Washington makes some tough policy changes.

Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki claimed U.S. troops were responsible for at least half the violence tearing apart Iraq and that their departure would pay security dividends for the entire region.

"If the United States changes its attitude, the Islamic Republic of Iran is ready to help with the withdrawal from Iraq," Mottaki told the International Institute of Strategic Studies conference here. "Fifty percent of the problem of insecurity in Iraq is the presence of foreign troops."

Mottaki echoed calls made last week by Iran's top national security official, Ali Larijani, for Gulf Arab countries to eject American bases in their countries and establish a regional security pact with Iran. Mottaki went further and offered deeper cooperation with the six Gulf Arab states on energy, tourism, business and counter-narcotics.

Iran's offers do not seem to have tempted Gulf neighbors who are apparently more worried about the dangers of living near Iran's nuclear facilities, especially amid threats by Washington and Israel to use military force to destroy them.

Mottaki's forceful speech was a challenge to U.S. interests in the Gulf and a strong display of the country's rising assertiveness in the face of U.S failures in the region.

At one point, Mottaki addressed an international audience that included U.S. Vice Adm. David Nichols, the deputy chief of U.S. Central Command, and said the regional chaos sparked by the Bush administration's twin wars demonstrated that U.S. military force was no longer a realistic policy option in the Middle East.

"Today the time of threats is over. The period of unilateralism is over," Mottaki said. "Look at Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. That gives us a very important lesson."

Iran's proposal for a Gulf security alliance shows no sign of gaining traction among the region's Arab leaders. Bahraini Foreign Minister Sheik Khalid bin Ahmed Al Khalifa said security of the energy-rich region depends on the United States, the European Union and other major oil-importing countries.

Much of the discussion at this security conference centered on the U.S. Iraq Study Group report, and its recommendation that Washington seek Iran's help in steering Iraq away from civil war.

William Cohen, defense secretary under President Clinton, urged Iran to push for talks with Washington.

"If you forgo aspirations for nuclear weapons and cut off funding for radical elements and support the Mideast peace process, then yes, you'd be welcomed into the international community. We'd have billions of dollars going into your economy," Cohen told the Iranians among 250 delegates from 22 countries.

"If Iran is simply interested in pursuing a nuclear energy program and not weapons, that's something the U.S. wouldn't object to and would support."


You don't really believe the parade of lies coming out of Tehran, do you?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:53 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
You don't really believe the parade of lies coming out of Tehran, do you?


I'm sure you prefer the parade of lies coming out of Bush & Co. I mean, at least his parade has shock and awe. What does this other parade have? I don't even see any floats.


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Buggy wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
You don't really believe the parade of lies coming out of Tehran, do you?


I'm sure you prefer the parade of lies coming out of Bush & Co. I mean, at least his parade has shock and awe. What does this other parade have? I don't even see any floats.


Well, I've read in the Study Group's report that the violence in Iraq has been downplayed by the Administration. I suppose that could be called a "lie." What other things do you have in mind that constitute "lies" from the Bush Administration?


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LeninFlux wrote:
What other things do you have in mind that constitute "lies" from the Bush Administration?


You forgot the :arrow:

If you're response is to be taken seriously, I won't even bother. Because you're either utterly oblivious to reality. Or so far out of understanding what has been going on in our country over the last 7 years that it would take a few books worth of posts to get you up to speed.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:06 am 
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Buggy wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
What other things do you have in mind that constitute "lies" from the Bush Administration?


You forgot the :arrow:

If you're response is to be taken seriously, I won't even bother. Because you're either utterly oblivious to reality. Or so far out of understanding what has been going on in our country over the last 7 years that it would take a few books worth of posts to get you up to speed.


Well, bother if you choose, or not. Just don't break out the WMD thing. It's so over on that nonsense.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:18 am 
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So, exactly how does anyone dismiss the conclusions of a group, a bipartisan group, a group of people with VAST foreign policy experience, that is UNANIMOUS in all of their conclusions and recommendations?

I mean, isn't this the point at which you have to ask yourself if perhaps YOU'RE the one who has a major detachment from reality?

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