_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:31 am Posts: 2622 Location: South of Boston, North of Stoughton
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
_________________ 06' Shows: Albany, Hartford, Boston 1&2, Denver 1&2
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Here is what I believe was the best post in either of those threads:
Pearl_of_wisdom wrote:
It think it's funny how similar both parties of this controversy actually are. Both sides seem very desperate to prove the other one wrong. Neither is very convincing imo - mostly because they argue about every tiny detail and try to prove/disprove things despite the fact that they don't have the evidence to back them up.
The conspiracy theorist's side i can understand. They have my sympathy, i understand what they are trying to prove. What i don't understand is what the other side is trying to prove. Especially since they don't seem to think too highly of the government either. So i suppose it is not all about blindly defending a glorified institution because they can't imagine it's capable of hurting its own citizens. So what's the point of this hair splitting and endless arguing over details?
Are there a lot of open questions concerning 9/11? Yes. Can any one of us possibly know what really happened? No. Can the government be trusted? No.
If your starting point is that the events on 9/11 were an act of war or a terrorist attack (i'm not saying they weren't) you trust the government agencies because all the information is controlled by them. All investigations are controlled by them. As far as i know there were no truly independent and neutral (non-US) agencies involved. So the US goverment presents the world with a story of what happened and everybody is supposed to buy it. Right. This approach leaves no room whatsoever for alternative explanations - but that doesn't mean the official story is true.
If you approach the events of 9/11 as a series of crimes that lead to the deaths of thousands of people and choose these crimes and their consequences as your starting point, you must ask the same questions every law enforcement agency asks when they investigate a crime. Who has a motive to commit this crime? Who has the means to commit this crime? That's how you get started - not by pointing your finger at one suspect and one suspect only and ignore all other possible explanations.
Did the neo-cons have a motive? Yep. Does the government have the means to commit a crime on that kind of scale? They have all the tools. Does this prove anything? Of course not. As far as the general public is concerned it's all a question of likelihood. What is likely to have happened on 9/11 - we can all form an educated opinion on that. But i'm afraid we'll never know for sure.
My opinion is that everything does point toward some kind of involvement of the neo-cons. They are far more likely suspects than a bunch of obscure terrorists who have never before 9/11 nor ever after 9/11 pulled off anything even remotely as destructive as the attack on the WTC towers, despite the fact that they are supposed to be (or have been) a huge terror network on some kind of holy war crusade against America. How often has the CIA warned about new imminent attacks and how many times was America hit?
The conspiracy theorists don't have to prove the government was behind it but the government have to prove they are not behind it.
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
I respect other's opinions, as we are all entitled to one. That being said, I find it amazing that people would actually believe that the government engineered the events of 9/11/01. That, to me, is baffling. And you are right....I saw some professor on Hannity and Colmes who teaches this stuff in his class. Watching it, I got the distinct impression that the guy was crazy anti-American and wanted to believe in the whole theory despite all the evidence thrown at him that shot gaping holes in it.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
GrimmaceXX wrote:
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
i don't WANT to believe it like i know some people do.
however, i do not trust our government whatsoever. it's sad, but it's true -- they're fucked up and hard to trust. i consider these theories and sometimes side with them. but i don't think we'll ever know the truth.
i'm not ashamed to question our fucked up government. and i don't think it's a slap into the face of anyone that lost a loved one to want to know the absolute truth. there are MANY questions associated with 9/11 that the government refuses to answer.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
corduroy_blazer wrote:
GrimmaceXX wrote:
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
i don't WANT to believe it like i know some people do.
however, i do not trust our government whatsoever. it's sad, but it's true -- they're fucked up and hard to trust. i consider these theories and sometimes side with them. but i don't think we'll ever know the truth.
i'm not ashamed to question our fucked up government. and i don't think it's a slap into the face of anyone that lost a loved one to want to know the absolute truth. there are MANY questions associated with 9/11 that the government refuses to answer.
Frankly, they don't have to answer unless it's a legitimate question, and none of the conspiracy theories I've heard regarding 9/11 are legitimate questions.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
GrimmaceXX wrote:
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
i don't WANT to believe it like i know some people do.
however, i do not trust our government whatsoever. it's sad, but it's true -- they're fucked up and hard to trust. i consider these theories and sometimes side with them. but i don't think we'll ever know the truth.
i'm not ashamed to question our fucked up government. and i don't think it's a slap into the face of anyone that lost a loved one to want to know the absolute truth. there are MANY questions associated with 9/11 that the government refuses to answer.
Frankly, they don't have to answer unless it's a legitimate question, and none of the conspiracy theories I've heard regarding 9/11 are legitimate questions.
i think three are, specifically.
1 -- why was wtc7 blown up demolition-style?
2 -- what happened at the pentagon?
3 -- was the plane shot down in pennsylvania?
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
It seems like every time the administration does anything remotely wrong it gets leaked. I don’t how anyone could believe a conspiracy involving 9/11 could possibly be kept secret. The wire tapping stuff, Plame etc gets leaked but nothing about a 9/11 conspiracy?
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
i'm not ashamed to question our fucked up government. and i don't think it's a slap into the face of anyone that lost a loved one to want to know the absolute truth. there are MANY questions associated with 9/11 that the government refuses to answer.
Yea, I don't understand what you are getting at, grimmace. Particularly when there are families who have lost love ones who have been asking the same questions.
My bottom line is that there are questions that have not been answered and that is shady. I don't care whether or not people want to believe the conspiracies theories...that is not what is important. What is importnat is that the public understands that there are a number of things in the official story that don't make sense and they should be questioned.
Last edited by mowbs on Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:29 pm Posts: 6217 Location: Evil Bunny Land
I really haven't paid attention to too many of these conspiracies.
I keep hearing the one about the buildings coming down demolition style.
So, are these people saying that the gov't knew the planes were going to hit, so they had detonators set up already to bring the buildings down once it happened?
I'm sorry. That just sounds like crazy talk.
_________________ “Some things have got to be believed to be seen.”
- Ralph Hodgson
I find it amazing that people WANT to believe this conspiracy as the truth..... to me it is a slap in the face of anyone who lost their loved ones on this day. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this is true, and even more sadly WANTING this to be true. Move to another country please.
i don't WANT to believe it like i know some people do.
however, i do not trust our government whatsoever. it's sad, but it's true -- they're fucked up and hard to trust. i consider these theories and sometimes side with them. but i don't think we'll ever know the truth.
i'm not ashamed to question our fucked up government. and i don't think it's a slap into the face of anyone that lost a loved one to want to know the absolute truth. there are MANY questions associated with 9/11 that the government refuses to answer.
Frankly, they don't have to answer unless it's a legitimate question, and none of the conspiracy theories I've heard regarding 9/11 are legitimate questions.
i think three are, specifically.
1 -- why was wtc7 blown up demolition-style? 2 -- what happened at the pentagon? 3 -- was the plane shot down in pennsylvania?
Of course, if you believe that the plane was shot down in Pennsylvania, it pretty much disproves the rest of the conspiracy theories.
_________________ For your sake I hope heaven and hell are really there but I wouldn't hold my breath
Here is what I believe was the best post in either of those threads:
Interesting that you would pick that post considering it contains one of the most illogical statements posted here in a while:
Pearl of Wisdom wrote:
The conspiracy theorists don't have to prove the government was behind it but the government have to prove they are not behind it.
It's like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist.
I think the underlying point of the entire post is that both theories have holes in them and it doesn't make sense to feel so strongly one way or another. The people who believe the official story have nothing to prove. It is the official story and that is the way it is going to be.
Are there a lot of open questions concerning 9/11? Yes.
Can any one of us possibly know what really happened? No.
Can the government be trusted? No.
If you think people are foolish for asking questions, then that is your thing.
Here is what I believe was the best post in either of those threads:
Interesting that you would pick that post considering it contains one of the most illogical statements posted here in a while:
Pearl of Wisdom wrote:
The conspiracy theorists don't have to prove the government was behind it but the government have to prove they are not behind it.
It's like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist.
I think the underlying point of the entire post is that both theories have holes in them and it doesn't make sense to feel so strongly one way or another. The people who believe the official story have nothing to prove. It is the official story and that is the way it is going to be.
Are there a lot of open questions concerning 9/11? Yes. Can any one of us possibly know what really happened? No. Can the government be trusted? No.
If you think people are foolish for asking questions, then that is your thing.
The foolish part comes in when they don't listen to logical answers.
_________________ For your sake I hope heaven and hell are really there but I wouldn't hold my breath
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
corduroy_blazer wrote:
i think three are, specifically.
1 -- why was wtc7 blown up demolition-style? 2 -- what happened at the pentagon? 3 -- was the plane shot down in pennsylvania?
1 -- maybe because it was unsafe? I don't know, does it even matter why it was blown up demolition-style? I'm sure those who were adversely affected by wtc7 being blown up have satisfactory answers, or they would no doubt be raing hell by now.
2 -- a plane ran into it. duh!
3 -- a plane being shot down is something that would be visible within a 50 mile radius, i'm sure there are people in the area are willing to answer that one. at any rate, unless there is substantial evidence (not baseless hypotheses) that the plane was shot down, there's no reason to be concerned about it.
I personally believe the politicians in Washington are immoral lying crooks who rarely have the best interests of the country in mind, but it's just silly to suggest they had anything to do with 9/11.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
I really haven't paid attention to too many of these conspiracies.
I keep hearing the one about the buildings coming down demolition style.
So, are these people saying that the gov't knew the planes were going to hit, so they had detonators set up already to bring the buildings down once it happened?
I'm sorry. That just sounds like crazy talk.
it's been admitted that wtc7 came down due to demolitions. they took it down. why, i do not know.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
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