An interesting question formed in my mind while reading the Jesusland thread that Kiddo created, and that Orpheus expanded upon. There's been an awful lot of discussion about Judgmental and Bigoted Christianity vs. Merciful and Forgiving Christianity, and I keep going back to the teachings of Christ, and Christ was primarily in the latter camp. Yeah, he got judgmental sometimes, but it was always when gross hypocrisy or flat out injustice was at hand.
Where things get sticky is equating Jesus Christ to the God of the Old Testament, a vengeful, wrathful, jealous kind of god who didn't practice too much mercy or forgiveness. If loving and merciful Jesus was "God in human form" or "The Word made flesh," given the chracter of God that we'd seen so far, an intolerant and wrathful guy who commanded his followers to wipe heathen civilizations off the face of the earth, the two don't seem to add up. This makes for an extremely confusing religion, at least at the surface level. Should I be intolerant of the pagan heathen next door, or should I accept and love him?
So my question is: Can the teachings of Jesus, the gospels if you will, be followed without the greater context of the Bible and still be considered Christianity? Or is that, in fact, pure Christianity?
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:18 am Posts: 3920 Location: Philadelphia
I know this really doesn't answer your question at all but here I go.
I think Christianity needs to realize that they don't have exclusive rights to Jesus. I don't believe in the Bible or that Jesus was/is God. Having said that, I love his teachings and do try to apply them in my life.
I think that is what is a bit tiring for me is the fact that you must be born again to have Jesus in your life. To me, the blacks don't own MLK or the Germans don't own Nietzsche.
His teachings could be applied by everyone.
I know that really doesn't answer your question at all, but I thought I would try to derail this early.
_________________ I remember doing nothing on the night Sinatra died
And the night Jeff Buckley died
And the night Kurt Cobain died
And the night John Lennon died
I remember I stayed up to watch the news with everyone
I wasn't looking for an answer as much as I was looking to get a good dialogue going, and gain some understanding to a pretty complicated mess. But I do like your response.
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:18 am Posts: 3920 Location: Philadelphia
Gotcha. I know a bit about the Bible and I would imagine that as a Christian it should all be important to your belief. It would be like fast forwarding to through the Godfather to get to the toll booth scene, you will miss a lot that you might enjoy. (And yes, I did just compare the Godfather to the Bible)
But without the Old Test., Jesus' messege would not have been as profound and groundbreaking.
_________________ I remember doing nothing on the night Sinatra died
And the night Jeff Buckley died
And the night Kurt Cobain died
And the night John Lennon died
I remember I stayed up to watch the news with everyone
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:29 pm Posts: 6217 Location: Evil Bunny Land
I'll say a couple things.
You don't have to be a Christian to believe and follow the principles that Christ taught. But you do have to believe He was the son of God to be a Christian. There is no way out of that. He clearly stated that he was the Christ sent here to save the world. You also can't be a Christian and not believe in the Resurrection.
As far as reconciling the Old Testament and the New Testament, it is confusing. God was very into vengeance and jealousy in the OT. But the prophets spoke of one that would come and establish a New Covenent with his people. The original covenenant was made with Moses. In no uncertain terms, God said "These are the rules. Break them and i will punish you." The Isrealites, of course, broke them time and time again and were punished for it.
The New Covenent that Jesus established was more loving and forgiving because He was going to take the punishment for all of our sins. As far as rules go, there are only two, love God and love thy neighbor as yourself.
_________________ “Some things have got to be believed to be seen.”
- Ralph Hodgson
In most of our congregations, our children learn Bible stories as a part of their church school curricula. It is not unusual to find adult study groups in the churches, or in workshops at summer camps and conferences, focusing on the Bible. Allusions to biblical symbols and events are frequent in our sermons. In most of our congregations, the Bible is read as any other sacred text might be-from time to time, but not routinely.
We have especially cherished the prophetic books of the Bible. Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, and other prophets dared to speak critical words of love to the powerful, calling for justice for the oppressed. Many Unitarian and Universalist social reformers have been inspired by the biblical prophets. We hallow the names of Unitarian and Universalist prophets: Joseph Tuckerman, Dorothea Dix, Clara Barton, Theodore Parker, Susan B. Anthony, and many others.
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books (or the newspaper)-with imagination and a critical eye.
We also respect the sacred literature of other religions. Contemporary works of science, art, and social commentary are valued as well. We hold, in the words of an old liberal formulation, that "revelation is not sealed." Unitarian Universalists aspire to truth as wide as the world-we look to find truth anywhere, universally.
In most of our congregations, our children learn Bible stories as a part of their church school curricula. It is not unusual to find adult study groups in the churches, or in workshops at summer camps and conferences, focusing on the Bible. Allusions to biblical symbols and events are frequent in our sermons. In most of our congregations, the Bible is read as any other sacred text might be-from time to time, but not routinely.
We have especially cherished the prophetic books of the Bible. Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, and other prophets dared to speak critical words of love to the powerful, calling for justice for the oppressed. Many Unitarian and Universalist social reformers have been inspired by the biblical prophets. We hallow the names of Unitarian and Universalist prophets: Joseph Tuckerman, Dorothea Dix, Clara Barton, Theodore Parker, Susan B. Anthony, and many others.
We do not, however, hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books (or the newspaper)-with imagination and a critical eye.
We also respect the sacred literature of other religions. Contemporary works of science, art, and social commentary are valued as well. We hold, in the words of an old liberal formulation, that "revelation is not sealed." Unitarian Universalists aspire to truth as wide as the world-we look to find truth anywhere, universally.
this is the closest i would come to religion. i took a test years back and this was all the coud suggest for me as well.
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