new Howard Zinn book on the shelves titled "Original Zinn". It is a collection of coversations with David Barsamian and Mr Zinn on history and politics.

Also, a nice little treat inside is Zinn mentioning Eddie and Pearl Jam during a coversation about "Resistance and the role of artists". Howard is speaking about Bob Dylan and "masters of war" and he mentions that he was recently at a Pearl Jam concert in boston (i was there, and eddie brought Zinn out on stage!) when they played it and the reaction of the crowd, the popularity of PJ, and Eddie and PJ bringing the Dylan sesibility to a new generation.

all in all it is a good read, pick it up

Honestly, this friendship of Ed's looks kind of silly. It is highly likely that Ed's net worth eclipses that of all 9000 of us put together. American capitalism has made him extremly wealthy, allowed him to live a life of privilege that we can only dream about...yet here he is with this man who proselytizes endlessly about the evils of American capitalism...Ed calls him a "wise man" and a "great elder" and praises A People's History...it's all kind of...silly.

..and he is with a supermodel. What ever happened to rolling some models in blood?

That's an original and insightful brand of criticism there. Meaning, it's stupid. Zinn put his life on the line quite a few times for a various number of good causes but obviously you know nothing about his career other than that he's a pointy-headed intellectual capitalist-hater.

Reading comprehension has never been your strong point; it was more a criticism of Vedder than Zinn.

...but since you bring it up, Howard Zinn lives in a world of his own creation, where the Cuban system is utopia and the US is inherently evil.

Here's the last chapter of A People's History
http://historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncomrev24.html

I'd like to say that it's more than the same ol' leftist pabulum, but it's not.
All the hallmarks are there: demonization of the wealthy, paranoid fear of the "man", complete detachment from reality.

Actually I think it should be required college level reading: here kids, here's some typical leftist pabulum.

DOH!

preparing for lockdown... 10... 9... 8...

touchy subject eh?

Anyone who says that Cuba is a socialist heaven where everybody is equal and happy, is out of his/her mind

well, maybe not here, but definitely on the message pit it was. here, i'm not so sure i follow the line of reasoning when it pertains to when the "rules" are enforced, so i wouldn't want to guess whether it would happen this time...

He doesn't say that at all. Zinn is nowhere near crazy.

"Cuba represents something very important in this world of wars and power plays and imperial expansion. I mean, here is this little island, which is not expanding anywhere, is not trying to take over the United States. It is, in fact, holding out in a very courageous way with meager resources against the most formidable military power in the world ... So, you have to admire Cuba for being undaunted by this colossus of the North and holding fast to its ideals and to Socialism. And even though there are many problems, it's an interesting Socialism with many possibilities ... With its very meager resources Cuba gives free health care and free education to everybody. Cuba supports culture, supports dance and music and theatre. The United States does not do that. The United States is rich enough to do this, but it doesn't."
-Howard Zinn http://www.cubanow.net/global/loader.php?&secc=12&item=209&cont=show.php

He is biased, and in my opinion, the 'Socialism' of Cuba today isn't really Socialism, but, Zinn doesn't blindly love Cuba. He appreciates the good aspects, and thinks they are better than the U.S. in some areas, like in this instance, supporting the arts.

Zinn makes me laugh with how he presents things in a way unattached from reality.

"It (Cuba) is, in fact, holding out in a very courageous way with meager resources against the most formidable military power in the world." I never knew they were under any attack they needed to hold out against. The US has an economic embargo with Cuba, the size of the US miltary doesn't play a role here at all. But Zinn sure is trying to emotionally make you forget the facts.

He then makes statements of opinion and treats them as facts, and without any underlying support of opinion. Do arts require state support? Is the US lacking in art? Does the US lack in culture? Should a melting pot based society have culture driven by government? What are the advantages of a country that supports arts but not sport? Should these personal inititatives be driven by government?

Zinn's a smart guy, has a "unique" way of looking at things, but he's only a smidgen more ethical than Michael Moore at times. Zinn is definitely removed from reality frequently.

That's not a pretty direct criticism of Zinn? I must have missed it somehow. No wait, apparently YOU forgot what you wrote.



Oooh, socialism, scary. Obviously you haven't read any Zinn, it's a bit unfair to pick out the last chapter which appears to be summing up the history he's compiled in the rest of his book. What you are basically saying is that he's a phoney because he makes money off BOOKS - what a hypocritical exploiter - and then denying the countless humanitarian and civil rights causes he's stood up for, like being thrown in jail and beaten over the head to ensure black people had rights amongst racism and poverty designed to keep them there. You're the one who needs to work on comprehensive reading skills.

I don't want to start shit here, but he did say the above AFTER your response to his criticism of Mr. Vedder. So, I'm afraid he wins this one.

And how does Eddie Veddar live a life of priviledge?

i hate when my computer goes on the fritz...it looks like you just typed, and how does eddie veddar live a life of priviledge

Hey hey hey, I just want an agreed upon chronology of the thread and have people understand each other. I don't know the man personally, so I refer to him as Mr. Veddar, thank you very much.

Eddie VeddEr wasn't born into a life of priviledge, but it is a bit naive to think that he doesn't live a life that is much, much more comfortable than ours. I'm not faulting him for it....good for him. But wouldn't you say touring for a year and taking the following year off to surf a life of priviledge? Again, this is not sour grapes or looking down on capitalism...just saying that we should not buy into an idealized vision of how he lives (not that it is our business to begin with).

Ed knows that capitalism has made him extremely wealthy, and I think he's been open (I'd say, very open) about how uncomfortable he has been with that fact. So what has he done to counter that feeling? He does everything he possibly can with his wealth and reach to help out somebody, anybody. His whole public persona and all of his ideals center around this. How many shows can be benefits? How much carbon can they "buy back" post-tour? How many petitions or drives or funds can he be involved with? That's the thing with capitalism, some people get wealthy and sit on it, some get wealthy and start DOING stuff. I think Ed has also been very clear that he supports the efforts of people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (the two most successful capitalists in America). If you can show me where Howard Zinn says something like 'rich people giving back or helping out is bad' then I will agree with your stance that it is 'silly' for Ed to be friends with him.

Ed has unfortunately been quite critical of Bill Gates. Listen to Seattle II 2000 for an example. Look at all the times a Bill Gates mask was used as the stage prop during Soon Forget.