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 Post subject: Australia to build southern hemisphere's largest wind farm
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:47 am 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061027/sc ... 1027171403

Australia to build southern hemisphere's largest wind farm

Fri Oct 27, 1:14 PM ET

SYDNEY (AFP) - Australia gave the green light to the southern hemisphere's largest wind farm, the country's second major project aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions announced this week.
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The go-ahead for the 600 million dollar (460 million US), 183-turbine wind farm in the state of Victoria follows Wednesday's announcement of the world's biggest space-age solar power station and extra funds for a pilot project to reduce, capture and store carbon dioxide emissions from a coal-fired power station in the same state.

The wind farm would have the capacity to generate enough power for almost 190,000 homes every year, Victoria state planning minister Rob Hulls said of the 55 square kilometre (22 square mile) project to be built at Macarthur in the state's west.

Energy company AGL would build the farm, which would be able to produce up to 329 megawatts of electricity, Hulls said.

"The approval at the Macarthur wind farm shows that the (Victorian state) government is certainly taking climate change seriously," he told reporters.

Hulls said the wind farm would help the state government reach its target of sourcing 10 percent of electricity from renewable energy sources by 2016.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:52 am 
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yup. heard about this yesterday but we've been expecting the announcement for a while. it's not far from one of the sites i'm currently working on.

hull's comment about the government taking climate change seriously is interesting- the victorian state government that is (the one he is talking about and is a member of). they are essentially the only Australian government doing anything about renewable energy going forward, and even that's not enough.

just because they have planning approval doesn't mean this will get built, though. for one thing i don't know how they're getting around CASA guidelines because their turbines (to the tip) are 150m... anyway... enough of me talking shop, huh?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:21 am 
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i think any news is good news on this fornt. I'm currently taking an alternative energy course at college here which should result in a goood paying job and hopefully helping out to make things better for everyone.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:30 am 
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corky wrote:
i think any news is good news on this fornt. I'm currently taking an alternative energy course at college here which should result in a goood paying job and hopefully helping out to make things better for everyone.

good luck with that. what degree are you going to have when you graduate?

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Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:37 pm 
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Other related news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061025/ap_ ... ate_change
Quote:
Australia to build world's largest solar power plant

The Australian government pledged $95 million in funding Wednesday for two projects as part of its new strategy to combat global warming, including the construction of the world's largest solar power plant.

The projects are the first to be funded under a $379 million package announced earlier this week to prevent global warming. Australia has been criticized over its refusal to sign the Kyoto Protocol on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The government will contribute $57 million to the $319 million project to build a 154 megawatt solar power plant in Victoria state, which will use mirrored panels to concentrate the sun's rays, Treasurer Peter Costello said.

The plant, which is to be built by Melbourne-based Solar Systems Pty Ltd., would begin operations in 2008 and reach full capacity by 2013.

"The project aims to build the biggest photovoltaic project in the world," Costello told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

The government also announced $38 million in funding toward a $274 million project to reduce carbon emissions from an existing coal-fired power house in Victoria. The project aims to reduce pollution in part by capturing and storing emissions from the burning coal.

"This will make a major contribution to emission reduction in Australia and it just shows practical, considered, financially viable, workable technologies which will help us on our way to reduce global warming," Costello said.

Environmental groups and opposition lawmakers have urged the government to do more to address Australia's reputation as the world's worst greenhouse gas polluter per capita. Greenpeace spokesman Danny Kennedy suspected the announcements could be a strategy to neutralize concerns about climate change ahead of elections next year.

"If the federal government's strategy is to lay out a series of ... announcements from now to the election, it is a thinly disguised attempt to avoid the real action that is needed — moving Australia away from polluting coal," he said.

The Australian Conservation Foundation said the solar power plant would be a small step toward reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

"If we really want to get serious about cutting our greenhouse emissions in Australia, the most effective way is to ensure that we're setting national targets that require greenhouse pollution to be cut and that we put a price on that greenhouse pollution, that is, make the polluters pay," the group's executive director, Don Henry, told The Sydney Morning Herald.

Australia and the United States are the only major industrialized nations to refuse to sign the Kyoto Protocol, which legally binds countries to targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 2012. Australia argues it would unfairly hamper its economy, which is heavily dependent on exporting coal, a major source of carbon emissions.

Instead, both countries have pledged money to an Asia-Pacific plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by promoting renewable energy sources and cleaner ways to use coal. Environmentalists have said the pledges are far too little and the plan focuses on untried technologies to prop up the fossil fuel industry.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:38 pm 
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corky wrote:
i think any news is good news on this fornt. I'm currently taking an alternative energy course at college here which should result in a goood paying job and hopefully helping out to make things better for everyone.


cool. what university are you at? I'm doing research into solar energy applications for buildings.


Last edited by corduroy11 on Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:47 pm 
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Those wind farms are awful.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:18 am 
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Human Bass wrote:
Those wind farms are awful.


Care to expand?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:00 am 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Other related news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061025/ap_ ... ate_change
Quote:
Australia to build world's largest solar power plant

The Australian government pledged $95 million in funding Wednesday for two projects as part of its new strategy to combat global warming, including the construction of the world's largest solar power plant.

The projects are the first to be funded under a $379 million package announced earlier this week to prevent global warming. Australia has been criticized over its refusal to sign the Kyoto Protocol on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The government will contribute $57 million to the $319 million project to build a 154 megawatt solar power plant in Victoria state, which will use mirrored panels to concentrate the sun's rays, Treasurer Peter Costello said.

The plant, which is to be built by Melbourne-based Solar Systems Pty Ltd., would begin operations in 2008 and reach full capacity by 2013.

"The project aims to build the biggest photovoltaic project in the world," Costello told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

The government also announced $38 million in funding toward a $274 million project to reduce carbon emissions from an existing coal-fired power house in Victoria. The project aims to reduce pollution in part by capturing and storing emissions from the burning coal.

"This will make a major contribution to emission reduction in Australia and it just shows practical, considered, financially viable, workable technologies which will help us on our way to reduce global warming," Costello said.

Environmental groups and opposition lawmakers have urged the government to do more to address Australia's reputation as the world's worst greenhouse gas polluter per capita. Greenpeace spokesman Danny Kennedy suspected the announcements could be a strategy to neutralize concerns about climate change ahead of elections next year.

"If the federal government's strategy is to lay out a series of ... announcements from now to the election, it is a thinly disguised attempt to avoid the real action that is needed — moving Australia away from polluting coal," he said.

The Australian Conservation Foundation said the solar power plant would be a small step toward reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

"If we really want to get serious about cutting our greenhouse emissions in Australia, the most effective way is to ensure that we're setting national targets that require greenhouse pollution to be cut and that we put a price on that greenhouse pollution, that is, make the polluters pay," the group's executive director, Don Henry, told The Sydney Morning Herald.

Australia and the United States are the only major industrialized nations to refuse to sign the Kyoto Protocol, which legally binds countries to targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 2012. Australia argues it would unfairly hamper its economy, which is heavily dependent on exporting coal, a major source of carbon emissions.

Instead, both countries have pledged money to an Asia-Pacific plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by promoting renewable energy sources and cleaner ways to use coal. Environmentalists have said the pledges are far too little and the plan focuses on untried technologies to prop up the fossil fuel industry.

while technically good news, this is just a drop in the bucket to make the government look like they're doing something about climate change to satisfy the voters. in reality they're doing everything they can to kill the renewable energy industry.

_________________
Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:40 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Those wind farms are awful.


Care to expand?


i mean, it screws the view of tha place, its expensive as hell, it doesnt generate a lot of energy, but of course i like the eco-friendly factor and they have plenty of room there...so its ok.

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There ain't no time to set things right
And I'm afraid I've lost the fight
I'm just a painful reminder
Another day you leave behind


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:01 am 
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Human Bass wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Those wind farms are awful.


Care to expand?


i mean, it screws the view of tha place, its expensive as hell, it doesnt generate a lot of energy, but of course i like the eco-friendly factor and they have plenty of room there...so its ok.

the view thing is only a matter of opinion. a lot of people like how they look.

the energy thing depends on what you call "a lot". one onshore turbine typically has a capacity of 2MW, which probably means little to someone outside the electricity industry. i'll post some stats tomorrow when i'm at work and have the information available to me about the equivalent in houses powered/cars taken off the road etc.

also, it's not that expensive when you stack it up against other forms of energy such as photovoltaic cells or nuclear. the main reason why coal is cheaper is because the externalities such as the cost to the environment have not yet been internalised in many places in the form of a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme. this will change, hopefully sooner rather than later.

_________________
Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:38 am 
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vacatetheword wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Those wind farms are awful.


Care to expand?


i mean, it screws the view of tha place, its expensive as hell, it doesnt generate a lot of energy, but of course i like the eco-friendly factor and they have plenty of room there...so its ok.

the view thing is only a matter of opinion. a lot of people like how they look.

the energy thing depends on what you call "a lot". one onshore turbine typically has a capacity of 2MW, which probably means little to someone outside the electricity industry. i'll post some stats tomorrow when i'm at work and have the information available to me about the equivalent in houses powered/cars taken off the road etc.

also, it's not that expensive when you stack it up against other forms of energy such as photovoltaic cells or nuclear. the main reason why coal is cheaper is because the externalities such as the cost to the environment have not yet been internalised in many places in the form of a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme. this will change, hopefully sooner rather than later.


I would venture to guess that the footprint of windfarms is significantly larger than traditional power plants, no? The cost of the real estate should be a factor as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:53 am 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
I would venture to guess that the footprint of windfarms is significantly larger than traditional power plants, no? The cost of the real estate should be a factor as well.

depends on what kind of footprint you're talking about. from an ecological standpoint, it's obviously a lot smaller. physically, they may take up more hectares than a conventional coal fired power plant for example, but there's
a)no open cut mine
b) the turbines only take up about 3% of the land they're on so normal farming activities aren't impacted.
as for property values, there's a lot of misinformation out there. i've read studies which show there to have been no impact on property prices in houses near wind farms, which of course isn't to say that's true everywhere. i also have first hand experience of properties being sold near our projects for a significant profit.

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Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:30 am 
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whoever asked, i'm taking an alternative enrgy program here in sarnia ontario canada which leads me to some sort of technologist degree/diploma/whatever at theend. i think its one of the first in cnaada/north america. Sarnia has a pretty huge "chemical valley" and alot of people go to the college here for that, this should help diverisfy it a bunch and since ontario needs to rplace so much power in the coming years should lead to a good job.


anyways it serioisuly boggles my mind how people can view windmills as an eyseore/ have any problem with wind farms. the way i see it, it's win win win for everyone involved. farmers/landowners who can lease their land for turbine use, goverments who can utilize more clean pwoer and the world as a whole , and whotever else.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:09 pm 
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We really ought to have a bunch of giant solar panels in the Sydney water catchment area. Either we get no rain in the area, meaning a fuckload of solar energy being generated forever and ever, or we get some rain in our dams, and the solar panels just sit there idle doing fuck all.

The Aboriginal reserves aside, considering all the wide open land we've got, we really should be doing more with wind and solar power. No one goes out to these places anyway, and it's not like there's any rain for the farmers to grow stuff with.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:57 pm 
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Hinny wrote:
The Aboriginal reserves aside, considering all the wide open land we've got, we really should be doing more with wind and solar power. No one goes out to these places anyway, and it's not like there's any rain for the farmers to grow stuff with.

the only problem is, the farther away from the grid you get, the more it costs to connect and it can make it uneconomical. plus you need areas where it is windy/sunny enough, and the windier areas tend to be nearer the coast. in principle, of course i agree :)

as for what i was saying earlier, for a rough guide, one typical onshore turbine will power over 1000 homes.

_________________
Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:52 pm 
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vacatetheword wrote:
Hinny wrote:
The Aboriginal reserves aside, considering all the wide open land we've got, we really should be doing more with wind and solar power. No one goes out to these places anyway, and it's not like there's any rain for the farmers to grow stuff with.

the only problem is, the farther away from the grid you get, the more it costs to connect and it can make it uneconomical. plus you need areas where it is windy/sunny enough, and the windier areas tend to be nearer the coast. in principle, of course i agree :)

as for what i was saying earlier, for a rough guide, one typical onshore turbine will power over 1000 homes.


People have a misconception about solar, in that they think it has to be really sunny in order for it to work. With proper design, even a little bit of sun can go a long way. I think the best examples are Germany and japan, the world leaders in using solar systems - Most of Canada, even Newfoundland gets more annual sunshine than either of these places!! So it just goes to show you that you don't need for it to be always sunny. Daylighting design is actually better for cloudy days than clear days, which can significantly cut down on eletricity for artificial lighting.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:57 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
vacatetheword wrote:
Hinny wrote:
The Aboriginal reserves aside, considering all the wide open land we've got, we really should be doing more with wind and solar power. No one goes out to these places anyway, and it's not like there's any rain for the farmers to grow stuff with.

the only problem is, the farther away from the grid you get, the more it costs to connect and it can make it uneconomical. plus you need areas where it is windy/sunny enough, and the windier areas tend to be nearer the coast. in principle, of course i agree :)

as for what i was saying earlier, for a rough guide, one typical onshore turbine will power over 1000 homes.


People have a misconception about solar, in that they think it has to be really sunny in order for it to work. With proper design, even a little bit of sun can go a long way. I think the best examples are Germany and japan, the world leaders in using solar systems - Most of Canada, even Newfoundland gets more annual sunshine than either of these places!! So it just goes to show you that you don't need for it to be always sunny. Daylighting design is actually better for cloudy days than clear days, which can significantly cut down on eletricity for artificial lighting.

well, yeah. i wasn't originally going to include solar but i didn't want to make it look as though wind has more constraints on it ;).
all part of being a liberal smear merchant.

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Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:29 pm 
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Has anybody seen the Palm Springs windfarms? 4000 windmills. Supposedly they power the entire Coachella valley. It's kind of an awesome sight, in a sort of very ugly way.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
Has anybody seen the Palm Springs windfarms? 4000 windmills. Supposedly they power the entire Coachella valley. It's kind of an awesome sight, in a sort of very ugly way.


Image
Image
Image

I dunno, it doesn't look that ugly to me.


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