Should Participation in a classroom affect your grade?

I just received a B in a class even though all the work I turned in had high B's and High A's because my class participation grade was a 75. I kind of think it's bullshit. I expected an A in the class. I had the class early in the morning and I would usually only get about 3-4 hours of sleep due to work and show up to the class so I would be exhausted and thus not participate in the class as much as I should. Anyway shouldn't the understanding of the material be the most important factor in determining a grade?

I think classroom participation is extremely important. It shows that you're actually engaging the material, as opposed to just doing what's required. Not to mention that out in the "real world" you might find yourself in a job that requires a lot of collaboration with others, and classroom participation readies you for that.

Well I'm not trying to brag but I feel I had a better understanding of the material than others who got higher grades than I. I guess participation is important but should it be the ultimate factor and should it lower your grade an entire letter grade if you've shown an absolute understanding of the subject at hand?

Classroom participation would in theory be an important part of ones education. However, I have found that usually this is simply a way for my professors to fuck over students that disagree with them and as well as a generous method of reward for those that blow smoke up their asses.

I don't think it lowered your grade a full letter. You said your work was A's and B's, and that you got a 75 (out of 100) I guess in CP. I'm willing to bet that the grading was laid out the first day in the syllabus too. If you have such an understanding of the material, it shouldn't be that hard to engage the material in the class. Don't bitch because you didn't do what was expected of you, and were graded accordingly.

I disagree. My grades never suffered as a result of disagreeing with a professor. If anything, they respected me more for it.

Forgive those of us who do not have your impeccable insight and the ability to form amazingly lucid arguments that leave your instructors awestruck.

Well I have to bitch. That's why I made the thread.

Anyway, yes the grading was laid out but for instance there was no way to establish why he gave some people better grades than others. There was no logical pattern. I guess I have a problem with this because I like to be graded on my ability and not how much I tell my teacher how great he is and how all his opinions are fantastic and it seems that the people who did that received better scores in class. Also I received a high B on one test and the rest were A's. Class Participation was a large chunk of the grade and what I'm saying is that it shouldn't have been. I gave thoughtful intelligent responses when called upon but didn't go out of my way to interject my opinions or to tell the teacher how fantastic he is. I don't feel that a 75 was warranted in this case. 85 maybe. But how do you judge classroom participation? Isn't that an opinion in itself?

Exactly. This is why I feel that participation shouldn't be graded in most classes. The only classes that participation should be required for a grade is Drama or acting classes and things like that.

This is a similar problem that I too have come across, in your syllabus classroom participation is not clearly defined. When dealing with ambiguous instructions (and usually a disorganized teacher) accomplishing what he/she considers adequate participation is frustrating. Since this is somewhat of an abstract concept to begin with I believe it should be removed from the curriculum entirely because it is subjective and I do not think there is an appropriate way to apply it with parity.

Well, you guys can disagree with me if you want. But I certainly didn't agree with everything I was taught. I guess I was fortunate enough to have professors that were willing to look at different opinions without deeming them wrong, or penalizing my grade for it. If you really feel that your grade was lower because you didn't kiss enough ass, that sounds like something the Department chair should be made aware of. In other words, run and tell on him.

You know I would but I feel like shit getting people in trouble. Especially when it comes to their jobs. I just don't like to interfere with someone's method of income. Now if I received an F....

[quote="ElPhantasmo"]Well, you guys can disagree with me if you want. But I certainly didn't agree with everything I was taught. I guess I was fortunate enough to have professors that were willing to look at different opinions without deeming them wrong, or penalizing my grade for it. If you really feel that your grade was lower because you didn't kiss enough ass, that sounds like something the Department chair should be made aware of. In other words, run and tell on him. [/quote

Do you have any idea how many times I have approached my Deparment head and been given a kindly "fuck off"? The Chairs of a University (for the most part) give less than a fuck about the opinions of thier pupils. Usually its some crotchety old bastard who has been with the department for 30 years, how progressive could they be.

I don't agree at all, and it's very true that participation in class will soon turn into participation in a job, where they really WILL reward people who participate and pass over people who just "do their job". Regardless of how well you do your job. I've seen it happen a million times, and have been subject to it myself.
Life outside of school becomes more like life inside school yearly, companies are forever trying to find new ways of "motivating" their employees to do more work, be more active and more enthusiastic about their jobs, most of these ways include "team building" and "corporate leadership skills" which they expect even from the lowest paid of grunts up to their Senior VPs.
Mandatory participation may be stupid and not at all example of your level of competency, but kissing ass is all about the money not intelligence if you get my drift.

Regarding agreeing with profs in order to get higher grades, I spent a quarter telling a prof that him AND Plato were full of shit and walked out with a 4.0.

I understand this and usually participate in class a lot. I work over 40 hours a week and go to school full time. It's hard. It just happened to be the class that required me to participate was the one where I got the least amount of sleep. So I guess I wouldn't be upset but I know the amount of effort that I put into my job and school and basically it's like saying I didn't put in enough effort which feels like a slap in the face.

Do you have any idea how many times I have approached my Deparment head and been given a kindly "fuck off"? The Chairs of a University (for the most part) give less than a fuck about the opinions of thier pupils. Usually its some crotchety old bastard who has been with the department for 30 years, how progressive could they be.

Who is to say that the others did not understand it even better.

A "B" is a decent grade and if you feel like you understood it fine, then I think you are doing great!

Unless "Class Participation" is listed as part of the mark breakdown on the course of study, you have a legitimate beef, and should seriously consider challenging the grade...

How do you remain so positive? Could I hire you as a personal assistant that shouts motivational one liners at me during sex?