im surprised noone has posted this yet (from cnn)

NEW YORK (AP) -- An angry crowd shouted "No justice, no peace!" Some called for the ouster of the city's police commissioner. Many counted off to 50, the number of rounds that are estimated to have been fired by police at three unarmed men, killing one on his wedding day.

Several hundred people gathered Sunday for a vigil and rally to demand answers about why officers let fly a flurry of bullets at 23-year-old Sean Bell early Saturday, hours before he was supposed to marry the mother of his two young children.

The five officers were placed on paid administrative leave and stripped of their guns, said Paul Browne, chief spokesman for the NYPD. Police and prosecutors promised a full investigation.

But none of that stemmed the fury of a community outraged by the shootings. (Watch the crowd count down the number of shots fired Video)

"We cannot allow this to continue to happen," the Rev. Al Sharpton said at the gathering outside Mary Immaculate Hospital, where one of the two wounded men was in critical condition. "We've got to understand that all of us were in that car."

Relatives of the men, including Bell's fiancee, attended the vigil and rally but none spoke publicly.

Some in the crowd called for the removal of Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, yelling "Kelly must go!"

Kelly has said that police shot at the car after it drove forward and struck an undercover officer and an unmarked police minivan. The information was based on interviews with witnesses and two officers who did not fire their weapons, he said.

But a witness account emerged Monday disputing that version of events.

Trini Wright, a dancer at the strip club where Bell's bachelor party was held, told the Daily News she was going to a diner with the men and was putting her makeup bag in the trunk of their car when the police minivan appeared.

"The minivan came around the corner and smashed into their car. And they (the police) jumped out shooting," Wright, 28, told the newspaper for Monday editions. "No 'stop.' No 'freeze.' No nothing."

Kelly had said Saturday the police department was still piecing together what happened and that it was too early to say whether the shooting was justified. He said it was unclear whether the officers, who were in plain clothes, identified themselves before firing.

On Sunday, Browne said, "We are continuing to look for additional witnesses to shed light on the incident and assisting the district attorney's office with its investigation."

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Kelly planned to meet with community leaders at City Hall on Monday. Bloomberg and his aides were in contact with Bell's family and community leaders throughout the weekend.

The shootings occurred after 4 a.m. Saturday outside the Kalua Cabaret in Queens. Kelly said the incident stemmed from an undercover operation by seven officers investigating the club.

Bell was struck twice. The survivors were Joseph Guzman, 31, who was shot at least 11 times, and Trent Benefield, 23, who was hit three times. Guzman was in critical condition Sunday and Benefield was stable.

The officers' shots struck the men's car 21 times. They also hit nearby homes and shattered windows at a train station, though no residents were injured.

Police thought one of the men in the car might have had a gun, but investigators found no weapons. It was unclear what prompted police to open fire, Kelly said.

According to Kelly, the groom was involved in a verbal dispute outside the club, and one of his friends referred to a gun.

An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, the car drove forward, striking the officer and minivan, Kelly said.

The officer was apparently the first to open fire, Kelly said. He had served on the force for five years. One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said.

In total, it is believed 50 bullets were fired, he said. It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, he said.

At some point, Bell backed the car onto a sidewalk, hitting a building gate, police said. He then drove forward, striking the police vehicle a second time, Kelly said.

The police department's policy on shooting at moving vehicles states: "Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle."

The police officers' group 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care said it was issuing a vote of no confidence in Kelly over the shooting.

Community leaders planned a rally December 6 at police headquarters.

This isn't the first time the NYPD has come under scrutiny over officer-involved shootings.

In 1999, police killed Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant from Guinea in western African who was shot 19 times. The four officers in that case were acquitted of criminal charges. And in 2003, Ousmane Zongo, a native of Burkina Faso in western African, was hit four times, twice in the back.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Yeah, this was all over the local news the night it happened.

I'm surprised this wasn't posted either. It's a HUGE story here right now. I smell a riot. Not a good time to be a NYC cop right now

Shouldn't the Police be giving a more detailed explanation of what exactly happened? The whole story is so crazy.

So... why did they run over the police officer? 31 rounds is rather excessive, but I'm wondering what sparked the initial vehicular assault.

i think the reasoning is they dont want to taint any potential witnesses. notice one witness said the police van hit the car, while all the others said they (wedding party) hit the van

Don't you hate it when parked cars lurch towards you as you're driving down the street?

the story i read said they crashed into the police van, backed up and almost hit an undercover cop, and then drove forward again and crashed into the police again. the cops probably thought they had to protect themselves but shooting the car up and sending stray bullets into houses nearby, might be a little bit excessive.

i guess we'll see when the whole story comes out.

I know this is early into the whole investigation, but any chance that one of these cops goes to jail for a couple of years. i think it's time for the police to take responsibility for breaking the law even when on the job. Did those guys break the law when they hit the cop and the cop car, Yes. Did the police break their own laws by shooting 50 times at unarmed men, Yup.

If the guys hit the cop's van repeatedly or looked like they were trying to drive over a cop, then they can legitimately be considered "armed" in my opinion. It just doesn't make sense that all these cops would open fire if they weren't doing anything seriously dangerous.

Then again. It doesn't make sense for cops to sodomize some guy with a broomstick, either. That happened, so anything is possible.

It doesn't make sense that they would fire 50 tinmes with no fire coming back at them. I don't know if it's the training or racism or just being scared of getting killed. All i know is that it was excessive and that this isn't going to go away.

Huh? What part don't you understand that the cops felt like the driver was a threat to their lives? Not only exhibiting hostile intent, but committing a hostile act. When somebody is in a car, and you use your weapon, you use until the car stops. Whether it take 1 bullet, 50, or 100.

Has anyone ever fired a 9mm handgun? Semi-auto? 15 rounds goes really fast. Hell, 30 rounds goes really fast. If the car is still going after three seconds and I've dumped one mag, I'm putting the other one in and dumping that one too. Whatever it takes to bring that car to a stop.

To immediately call such a thing criminal, is to assume guilt without knowing the whole story.

If the guy's still able to operate a vehicle after 15 rounds from fairly close range, then the police officer should go back for marksmanship training.

I could pick this post apart(like you did mine) but i'll let the regulars here do it. I've got beer to drink

Put yourself in the situation. It's dark, the car is lurching back and forth.

When you get into a situation like that, it's not like you're taking a well aimed shot. You're taking a generally aimed shot. They fired 50 shots, and how many hit them? 15? I'm not shocked. Take into account geometry of fire and other things. Seems plausible to me.

I won't pass judgement on either party until something more formal about is released. I will say though, that the cops story seems far more plausible and realistic though.

while that is known now, its not the complete case. the po po didnt know this at the time, and apparently the club they were at was under investigation and had been in the past and was even shut down due to illegal activities.


im purely speculating here, but if youre a cop and investigating a place where there are known or have been known illegal activities, and someone rams your vehicle not once but twice, youre going to open up

a car is a 2 ton weapon

story time:

this is one of the worst places a man could want to be. it's been shut down over and over for narcotics, prostitution and weapon possessions. one more bust and it's shut down again. so the place is swarming in undercover cops trying to make a bust.

downstairs, an undercover cop overhears a fight between a patron and dancer. the patron motions to his waist and tells the dancer 'i'll take care of things if i have to...' which was somewhat motioning like he had a gun.

cop calls back to his guys upstairs and says 'it's getting hot down here, i think we've got a gun'

a minute later, the 8 of the bachelor party leave. they get outside and begin to get in an argument with one guy. one of the 8 says 'yo, go get my gun' or 'i'm going to get my gun'

cops hear it, and follow suit.

just minutes later, the guys suspected of having a gun hit a cop, and an undercover cop car.

now listen, 50 shots is alot. however, 34 of them came from one officer -- the guy getting hit. maybe he feared the guys were onto the undercover thing. who knows. but he must have felt threatened.

i think it comes down to these guys being in the wrong place at the wrong time, acting up a big game that maybe they weren't even playing without realizing the place was covered with cops.

I thought the subject of this thread was "Cops kill Grossman"

thats sorta what i got from watching cnn and fox. but people will say that the cops over reacted, but how much time should they wait until the open up?