http://today.reuters.com/news/articlene ... -newsOne-8

U.S. has most prisoners in world due to tough laws
Sat Dec 9, 2006 11:15 AM ET

By James Vicini

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tough sentencing laws, record numbers of drug offenders and high crime rates have contributed to the United States having the largest prison population and the highest rate of incarceration in the world, according to criminal justice experts.

A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail.

According to the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College in London, more people are behind bars in the United States than in any other country. China ranks second with 1.5 million prisoners, followed by Russia with 870,000.

The U.S. incarceration rate of 737 per 100,000 people in the highest, followed by 611 in Russia and 547 for St. Kitts and Nevis. In contrast, the incarceration rates in many Western industrial nations range around 100 per 100,000 people.

Groups advocating reform of U.S. sentencing laws seized on the latest U.S. prison population figures showing admissions of inmates have been rising even faster than the numbers of prisoners who have been released.

"The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. We rank first in the world in locking up our fellow citizens," said Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, which supports alternatives in the war on drugs.

"We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offenses."

Ryan King, a policy analyst at The Sentencing Project, a group advocating sentencing reform, said the United States has a more punitive criminal justice system than other countries.

MORE PEOPLE TO PRISON

"We send more people to prison, for more different offenses, for longer periods of time than anybody else," he said.

Drug offenders account for about 2 million of the 7 million in prison, on probation or parole, King said, adding that other countries often stress treatment instead of incarceration.

Commenting on what the prison figures show about U.S. society, King said various social programs, including those dealing with education, poverty, urban development, health care and child care, have failed.

"There are a number of social programs we have failed to deliver. There are systemic failures going on," he said. "A lot of these people then end up in the criminal justice system."

Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in California, said the high prison numbers represented a proper response to the crime problem in the United States. Locking up more criminals has contributed to lower crime rates, he said.

"The hand-wringing over the incarceration rate is missing the mark," he said.

Scheidegger said the high prison population reflected cultural differences, with the United States having far higher crimes rates than European nations or Japan. "We have more crime. More crime gets you more prisoners."

Julie Stewart, president of the group Families Against Mandatory Minimums, cited the Justice Department report and said drug offenders are clogging the U.S. justice system.

"Why are so many people in prison? Blame mandatory sentencing laws and the record number of nonviolent drug offenders subject to them," she said.

its not due to tough laws, its due to dumbasses thinking they can break the law and get away with it

I don't think the "War" on "Drugs" helps keep numbers down.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/prison.htm

(It's pretty big, so please visit it if you like.)

(Just one of many alarming examples

In 2003, drug law violators comprised 20.0% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 250,900 out of 1,256,400 State prison inmates.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2005 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, November 2006), p. 9.)

It really is ridiculous how many non-violent offenders of drug/alcohol offenses we are locking up. It's not doing anything to solve the drug problem and it's overcrowding the prisons.

if things in Brazil worked as they should, we would beat you guys up there.

How much longer can we justify locking people up for posession of weed?

For as long as municipalities can rake in the fines that people pay for said offenses. I don't think simple possession is something you'd get locked up for. Being charged with distribution is another story.

No way! DuPont keeps weed illegal because the many uses of hemp would drive them out of business!

This theory is why I just laugh at the weed smoking pro legalization crowd. Yes people, there's a conspiracy because Hemp would solve all the world's problems.

Thats not to say that the criminalization of weed is a good thing, just that some people need to lay off for a little while to clear the paranoia before trying to put a coherent argument together as to why it should be legal.

in theory, those that do get away with it aren't really that dumb at all...they're jerks, but not dumb

Even if those 20% weren't in jail, we'd still beat out everyone else for prisoners as a percent of the population. So obviously drugs isn't the only problem, its just part of it. I'd think that having a heterogeneous society would increase crime rates, as there's less of a feeling of belonging and greater economic inequalities.

really, the onus shoudl be on anyone who thinks it should be illegal. in the end are there really any reasonably good reasons?

Peeps, you want to field this one?

Hey, I have a great idea guys. Let's lessen sentencing in our crime infested society. That's sure to be a workable solution in America



No way.



Hey, I gotta an idea. The best way to lower crime rates, is to just make all kinds of stuff that's illegal now, LEGAL!!!! To include frying ones brain. That's obviously a healthy start. Let's stop this foolish war on drugs and just let drugs take their own road on the free market. It'll solve all of America's problems. Including those crowded prisons.

You're right. We should just uphold the status quo, since it appears to be working so well. I mean, look, the drug war is basically won, right? It has almost put an end to the drug problem.

And jail is obviously the best deterrent. Who needs treatment? It's not like any of these offenders continue to use drugs when they are released.

Here's the law for where I live:

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4542

You can see other states rules there. You most certainly can and will get locked up for possession.



I haven't seen a post in this thread arguing that postion. Most of them, and I agree with this, seem to just think it's a waste of resources to lock up people for possessing pot. No one is talking about making it ok to carry the stuff at Walmart. Just to send pot heads to jail. Save that for the guys who beat up their wives or rob 7-11s.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,3084
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0


It seems that RX drugs and cars are more dangerous than "Frying ones brain", but they seem perfectly legal. How do you make something that kills no one a crime, but I can eat 10 Big Macs a day until I die of heart failure perfectly legal. The thought process involved in demonizing drugs for the safety of the people is beyond laughable.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to light up a Camel, open a bottle of Jack and grab some Taco Bell... but I better not light up a joint in my house, that would just be unhealthy and criminal.

We've had this conversation a thousand times. Being unhealthy is a caviat to not doing drugs, not drinking, and not smoking, but it's not the reason that makes doing drugs illegal.

Smoking a joint, or snorting a line, or shooting up, they are illegal because it presents a potential harm to society. Just like abuse of over the counter drugs, or driving drunk. Drinking in and of itself is perfectly safe to me. It's when that same individual steps into the car and shares the road with me that I begin to have a problem with it. Same with the Kennedy's of the world swerving around police cars hopped up on over the counter drugs.

Laws exist to keep me safe. And I'm sorry if I'm a downer and not with it. But I prefer to be kept as safe as possible from people who abuse drugs of all kinds. And I prefer stiff punishments for those who do, and stiffer punishments for those pushing sales on the street. And I'm sorry if I also prefer anti-drug campaigns. Simply on the selfish basis of keeping me safe, and keeping as many of these people as possible off the streets, and out of society.

A responsible drug user doesn't get caught.

Yes we have, so I don't really feel like doing it all again. I just wanted to post some statistics to support my opinion.



When people talk about dealers "pushing" drugs, I'm always reminded of Chris Rock in "Bring the Pain" saying...
"Drug dealers don't sell drugs, drugs sell themselves. It's crack! It's not an encyclopedia. It's not a fuckin' vacuum cleaner. You don't really gotta try to sell crack. I never heard a crack dealer go, "how am I gonna get rid of all this crack? It's just piled up in my house."



So by that logic a responsible wife beater is one whose wife doesn't call the police or a responsible pedophile is one who doesn't get caught. I don't think you should have to live in fear because you are doing something that effects no one else but yourself... but again, we have discussed that many times before.

Then we should investigate what these other countries are doing to breed smarter populations who don't break laws.