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 Post subject: Outlawing Unbelief
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:56 am 
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Outlawing Unbelief
by Tom Flynn

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 20, Number 1.

It's often forgotten, but seven states of the Union still define atheists, secular humanists, and other freethinkers as second-class citizens. The state constitutions of Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas retain historic provisions that ban unbelievers-and in some cases, minority religionists as well-from holding public office, bearing witness in court, or both. The Pennsylvania and Texas constitutions go further yet, declaring their debt to "Almighty God" in their preambles.

Typical language includes Article IX, Sec. 2, of the Tennessee constitution (engagingly titled "No Atheist shall hold a civil office"): "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Article XIX, Sec. 1, of the Arkansas constitution is even more exclusionary: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

Article 37 of Maryland's constitution provides that "no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God" (emphasis added).

Article I, Sec. 4, of Pennsylvania's constitution is more insidious: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth." This dual requirement of belief in a deity and in a retributive afterlife could block adherents of numerous lifestances, even some Christians. A liberal Protestant who believes in God but not in a literal afterlife, a Buddhist who believes in karma but not in a deity, or an Orthodox Jew who believes in God and an afterlife but not in reward or punishment after death-all could be barred from public office as readily as any secular humanist if this clause were enforced.

Fortunately, clauses establishing second-class citizenship for nonbelievers are seldom enforced. In the eyes of the legal profession, they are unenforceable because they blatantly violate the separation of church and state. Yet that didn't keep South Carolina from struggling for years to deny atheist Herb Silverman a commission as a notary public. The Arkansas anti-atheist provision survived a federal court challenge as recently as 1982. Only Maryland's provision has been explicitly overturned by the Supreme Court, in the famous 1961 Torcaso v. Watkins decision.

These clauses continue to linger in state constitutions in part because they are considered unenforceable. Few reformers have felt strong need to press for their removal. Amending state constitutions is difficult and expensive; removing clauses, even unenforceable ones, that penalize unbelievers is bound to be unpopular. Why bother, one might argue, struggling toward a victory that would be at best symbolic?

The first answer is that symbolism matters. Constitutional clauses denying full political privileges to the nonreligious (and others) enshrine bigotry in an unwelcome historical reverence. They provide rhetorical ammunition for ideologues (including many on the religious Right) who wish explicitly to deny full citizenship to those they consider infidels. Perhaps worst of all, the clauses valorize a preference for Protestant Christianity over other religious and nonreligious lifestances that is increasingly odious in a society of rapidly increasing religious diversity.

The second answer is that, while these clauses may be unenforceable today, they may not always remain so. While they survive they are like cast-off weapons-weapons a future, more pious America might choose to recommission. Consider that the next U.S. president will probably appoint at least three Supreme Court justices. If all were strong conservatives, the result could be a high court capable of reconsidering Torcaso-and making open political discrimination against nonbelievers allowable again.

Future religio-political conservatives will find it harder to create new constitutional language sanctioning the civil emasculation of unbelievers than to re-activate existing language long disavowed but never repealed. State constitutional clauses that align the polis with the Christian deity and deny unbelievers full access to public office or the courts are offensive and unacceptable. They must fall. It's time more secular humanists-and others committed to fair treatment for all-said so.

Even if they are now unenforceable, the bigoted passages in seven state constitutions that shut out unbelievers (and often unorthodox religionists) from the body politic merit repeal. Recently Paul Kurtz has called for formation of a neo-humanist coalition. Such a coalition might take explicit political action to improve the status of unbelievers in American life. Pressing to strike these obnoxious clauses could offer such a coalition a worthwhile initial project.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:49 am 
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They're all trumped by the federal constitution which specifically, and unambiguously, outlaws religious tests to hold public office. Symbolism matters, but not that much.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:50 am 
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But athesist are smug, self-assured snobs guys

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LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:34 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
But athesist are smug, self-assured snobs guys


Self-assured enough to not proofread, apparently.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:08 am 
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I rarely proofread my posts on a message board, which usually results in tons of really stupid errors

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LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:40 am 
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Neither do I, I just thought it was funny.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:45 pm 
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You can't trust freedom when it's not in your hands

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:53 pm 
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i like lewis blacks bit where hes talkin about athiests..

"i know atheiests..and they dont give a FUCK!!"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:56 pm 
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i got bugs wrote:
i like lewis blacks bit where hes talkin about athiests..

"i know atheiests..and they dont give a FUCK!!"


Lewis black is great... was that from his standup or book?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:00 pm 
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Some CNN about this from the other day:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

Good to see them have a debate about discrimination against atheists with 3 guests... none of whom are atheists or secular. :roll:

At least the ESPN guy in the clip had some respectable comments. The other 2 fucks should be put in straight-jackets and commited.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:09 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Some CNN about this from the other day:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

Good to see them have a debate about discrimination against atheists with 3 guests... none of whom are atheists or secular. :roll:

At least the ESPN guy in the clip had some respectable comments. The other 2 fucks should be put in straight-jackets and commited.


The debate is ridiculous. It is nothing but 3 nutty people who all think the same. This basically backed up everything that was in the story about them being discriminated against and not given equal time. There really is just hatred towards atheist.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Richard Dawkins is going to be on Paula Zahn (CNN) tonight at 8:00pm EST. I'm guessing it might have something to do with her previous show... hopefully he can point out the hatred and bigotry of those guests who claim to be "moral".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:03 am 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Some CNN about this from the other day:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

Good to see them have a debate about discrimination against atheists with 3 guests... none of whom are atheists or secular. :roll:

At least the ESPN guy in the clip had some respectable comments. The other 2 fucks should be put in straight-jackets and commited.


Well, I looked up the name of the black lady and it turns out as I immediately suspected - she's collaberated with Al Sharpton (actually my guess was Jackson, but oh well). She'll probably turn around to the international chess committee and bitch because "black moves second and white moves first."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:16 am 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Richard Dawkins is going to be on Paula Zahn (CNN) tonight at 8:00pm EST. I'm guessing it might have something to do with her previous show... hopefully he can point out the hatred and bigotry of those guests who claim to be "moral".


*edit: since Paula Zahn is ddoing a special on anna nicole smith, Dawkins will be on CNN tomorrow (friday) at 8pm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:31 am 
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corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Richard Dawkins is going to be on Paula Zahn (CNN) tonight at 8:00pm EST. I'm guessing it might have something to do with her previous show... hopefully he can point out the hatred and bigotry of those guests who claim to be "moral".


*edit: since Paula Zahn is ddoing a special on anna nicole smith, Dawkins will be on CNN tomorrow (friday) at 8pm.


So Anna Nicole Smith was judged more mewsworthy than Richard Dawkins. :shake:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:35 am 
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dontcha just love seperation of church and state????

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:50 am 
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Merrill wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Some CNN about this from the other day:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiyJzWy3CDQ
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

Good to see them have a debate about discrimination against atheists with 3 guests... none of whom are atheists or secular. :roll:

At least the ESPN guy in the clip had some respectable comments. The other 2 fucks should be put in straight-jackets and commited.


Well, I looked up the name of the black lady and it turns out as I immediately suspected - she's collaberated with Al Sharpton (actually my guess was Jackson, but oh well). She'll probably turn around to the international chess committee and bitch because "black moves second and white moves first."


I was actually going to look her up myself. I want to see what she won the Pulitzer for. Apparently, Hunter spent four years as a part of the New York Daily News' seven-member editorial board. In 1999, she was a concurrent member of respective news teams that won the Pulitzer Prize and the Polk Award. (From Wikipedia.)

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And the night Jeff Buckley died
And the night Kurt Cobain died
And the night John Lennon died
I remember I stayed up to watch the news with everyone


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:04 am 
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quick show of hands- does the name madalyn murray o'hair mean anything to you guys? just wondering how well known she is.

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Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:34 am 
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that blonde...

EXACTLY! the kid doesn't know what's going on and he shouldn't have god and christianity shoved down this throat by our public schools!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:50 am 
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