Post subject: Texas seeks superhighways..the blacktop kind
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:17 am
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Texas Governor Seeks to Build Megahighways
Wed Dec 29, 2:10 PM ET
By JIM VERTUNO, Associated Press Writer
AUSTIN, Texas - In what sounds like another tall tale told by a Texan, the Lone Star State has embarked on an audacious project to build superhighways so big, so complex, that they will make ordinary interstates look like cowpaths.
The Trans-Texas Corridor project, as envisioned by Republican Gov. Rick Perry in 2002, would be a 4,000-mile transportation network costing an awesome $175 billion over 50 years, financed mostly if not entirely with private money. The builders would then charge motorists tolls.
But these would not be mere highways. Proving anew that everything's big in Texas, they would be megahighways — corridors up to a quarter-mile across, consisting of as many as six lanes for cars and four for trucks, plus railroad tracks, oil and gas pipelines, water and other utility lines, even broadband transmission cables.
Supporters say the corridors are needed to handle the expected NAFTA-driven boom in the flow of goods to and from Mexico and to enable freight haulers to bypass heavily populated urban centers on straight-shot highways that cut across the countryside.
The number of corridors and exactly where they would run have yet to be worked out. But the Texas Transportation Commission on Dec. 16 opened negotiations with the Spain-based consortium Cintra to start the first phase of the project, a $7.5 billion, 800-mile corridor that would stretch from Oklahoma to Mexico and run parallel to Interstate 35.
"Some thought the Trans-Texas Corridor was a pie-in-the-sky idea that would never see the light of day," said Perry, who has compared his plan to the interstate highway system started during the Eisenhower administration. "We have seen the future, and it's here today."
But as the plan rumbles along in the fast lane, some have called it a Texas-size boondoggle. Environmentalists are worried about what it will do to the countryside. Ranchers and farmers who stand to lose their land through eminent domain are mobilizing against it. Small towns and big cities alike fear a loss of business when traffic is diverted around them.
Even the governor's own party opposes the plan. The GOP platform drafted at last summer's state convention rejected it because of its effect on property rights.
Perry is undeterred. "I think it will be a model for future infrastructure construction in the world," he predicted.
The tolls would represent a dramatic departure for Texas, which has traditionally relied on federal highway funding from gasoline taxes to build roads. But supporters say the combination of tolls and private money would allow Texas to pour concrete at a rate that would not be possible through gasoline taxes alone.
Texas economist Ray Perryman said the corridors could generate about $135 billion for the state over the 50-year span and lure new industry by offering efficient shipping routes for goods and utilities. "Any time we can do something better, faster and cheaper, it's going to give us an advantage," he said.
The new rail lines could also lower the risk of chemical spills in urban areas, said Perry spokesman Robert Black. "We have hazardous materials running through our city centers because of a rail system that was built 100 years ago," Black said.
For the Oklahoma-Mexico corridor, Cintra plans to spend $6 billion for about 300 miles of four-lane highway from Dallas to San Antonio and give the state an additional $1.2 billion for improvements along the route. In return, Cintra wants to maintain and operate the toll road for 50 years.
Other potential corridors could stretch east-west from Orange to El Paso, and north-south from Amarillo to Laredo.
The Texas Farm Bureau — generally regarded as an ally of Perry, who grew up on a farm in West Texas — opposes the project.
"They're proposing going primarily through farm and ranch lands," said bureau President Kenneth Dierschke, a cotton farmer from San Angelo. "If someone comes in and cuts your property in half, that's no good."
Officials promise property owners will be fairly compensated for any land seized. And a special provision put in for the benefit of rural Texas would allow some to negotiate for a share of the revenue generated by traffic on the corridor.
David Stall, the former city manager of Columbus, a town of about 3,800 along Interstate 10, founded Corridor Watch in opposition to the plan. He predicted an El Paso-to-Orange corridor would divert as much as 25 percent of the traffic off of I-10 and have a "devastating impact" on Columbus.
As for the financing, Stall warned that if the Cintra deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
"There is no free lunch and no free road," he said.
Post subject: Re: Texas seeks superhighways..the blacktop kind
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:22 am
Spaceman
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
Athletic Supporter wrote:
But these would not be mere highways. Proving anew that everything's big in Texas, they would be megahighways — corridors up to a quarter-mile across, consisting of as many as six lanes for cars and four for trucks, plus railroad tracks, oil and gas pipelines, water and other utility lines, even broadband transmission cables.
That is fucking HUGE It actually sounds unneccesarily big.
And, I don't even want to bring it up, but a huge target if it include all thsoe things.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:38 am Posts: 5575 Location: Sydney, NSW
davo15 wrote:
Texas is fucking stupid.
I know you're probably kidding... but it's worth pointing out nonetheless that not all Texans are stupid meaning you can't generalise about an entire state.
But yeah... this highway thing is hideous. I suspect many Texans would agree though.
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Jammer91 wrote:
If Soundgarden is perfectly fine with playing together with Tad Doyle on vocals, why the fuck is he wasting his life promoting the single worst album of all time? Holy shit, he has to be the stupidest motherfucker on earth.
I know you're probably kidding... but it's worth pointing out nonetheless that not all Texans are stupid meaning you can't generalise about an entire state.
But yeah... this highway thing is hideous. I suspect many Texans would agree though.
Not all Texans have to be stupid for the state to be. I stand by my statement. It's a goddamn bane.
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
I'm against it if only because that's a ridiculous use of eminent domain.
If it's private companies financing this thing, let them pay the landowners for the land if they want it. There's absolutely no reason for the government to steal it for them.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:22 am Posts: 152 Location: 23 miles from Hart Plaza.
I only hope they don't get a lot of snow. Up here in Michigan, the blacktop roads get eaten alive by snow plows and the whole summer is spent in detours while they fix those roads.
We finally are beginning to change some of the blacktop roads to concrete. Its a new kind of concrete. It comes form Europe and it isn't affected by the changes in temperatures so much. So, it doesn't have cracks that plows can dig into. Its about time too!!! A lot of our tax dollars are constantly being put into road repair.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
Heatherj43 wrote:
I only hope they don't get a lot of snow. Up here in Michigan, the blacktop roads get eaten alive by snow plows and the whole summer is spent in detours while they fix those roads. We finally are beginning to change some of the blacktop roads to concrete. Its a new kind of concrete. It comes form Europe and it isn't affected by the changes in temperatures so much. So, it doesn't have cracks that plows can dig into. Its about time too!!! A lot of our tax dollars are constantly being put into road repair.
You're lucky. In New York and Illinois, the mafia runs the road construction business, and they would never allow a new surface that doesn't need to be replaced every two years.
--PunkDavid
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Right. Is there a point to this "superhighway" anyway? I didn't realize Texas was in a state of constant gridlock.
I don't know about gridlock, but Houston did surpass LA for being the most smoggiest city.
yeah, but it isn't gridlock from Houston to San Antonio, or San Antonio to Austin, or Austin to Dallas. And it isn't enough for Texas to waste all that money just to make up for its collective penile inferiority complex.
We're not all bad. I like to think I'm one of the exceptions. I don't love it here, but I know that eventually I'll be able to leave. Of course, I also think that Texans are some of the friendliest people around, and I've been all over this country. The state isn't bad, just the politics, and we all know who controls that. The one with the most $$$.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:25 pm Posts: 3567 Location: Swingin from the Gallows Pole
davo15 wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
PJDoll wrote:
davo15 wrote:
Texas is fucking stupid.
Right. Is there a point to this "superhighway" anyway? I didn't realize Texas was in a state of constant gridlock.
I don't know about gridlock, but Houston did surpass LA for being the most smoggiest city.
yeah, but it isn't gridlock from Houston to San Antonio, or San Antonio to Austin, or Austin to Dallas. And it isn't enough for Texas to waste all that money just to make up for its collective penile inferiority complex.
For your info, highways are designed and based upon a level of service during the hours from 6am-10 am and from 3pm - 7pm. So unless you have seen the traffic report how do you know if there is "gridlock"? Also, just about every major city has bypasses around the city. Denver is 3/4 of the way done with theirs.
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Right. Is there a point to this "superhighway" anyway? I didn't realize Texas was in a state of constant gridlock.
I don't know about gridlock, but Houston did surpass LA for being the most smoggiest city.
yeah, but it isn't gridlock from Houston to San Antonio, or San Antonio to Austin, or Austin to Dallas. And it isn't enough for Texas to waste all that money just to make up for its collective penile inferiority complex.
For your info, highways are designed and based upon a level of service during the hours from 6am-10 am and from 3pm - 7pm. So unless you have seen the traffic report how do you know if there is "gridlock"? Also, just about every major city has bypasses around the city. Denver is 3/4 of the way done with theirs.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
zutmon wrote:
For your info, highways are designed and based upon a level of service during the hours from 6am-10 am and from 3pm - 7pm. So unless you have seen the traffic report how do you know if there is "gridlock"? Also, just about every major city has bypasses around the city. Denver is 3/4 of the way done with theirs.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:25 pm Posts: 3567 Location: Swingin from the Gallows Pole
Green Habit wrote:
zutmon wrote:
For your info, highways are designed and based upon a level of service during the hours from 6am-10 am and from 3pm - 7pm. So unless you have seen the traffic report how do you know if there is "gridlock"? Also, just about every major city has bypasses around the city. Denver is 3/4 of the way done with theirs.
Ah yes, the good ol' LOS A-F.
I'm such a road geek.
I took road geek graduate classes.
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:36 pm Posts: 833 Location: Detroit, MI
Quote:
Supporters say the corridors are needed to handle the expected NAFTA-driven boom in the flow of goods to and from Mexico and to enable freight haulers to bypass heavily populated urban centers on straight-shot highways that cut across the countryside.
Wasn't NAFTA done in 1993? I'm sure that boom is right around the corner.
And a quarter-mile wide highway, to go side by side with the interstate highway system? I'd be all for replacing the interstate system with these nifty projects, but not having redundancy. This way as presented, it's a bad idea.
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