Is it because VT is a private school that they have "rent a cops"? As far as I'm aware, all public Universities in California have their own police departments, and go to the same county academies as county officers. Additionally, they all have AR-15s and shotguns in their cruisers, in addition to their sidearms. Is this typical of other state schools?

I'm thinking...in between. My school is of comparable size to VT. It's smaller, but not by much. It wouldn't call RIT a "school" when it comes to security. But I wouldn't call it a "small city" either. So far as security is concerned, it's kind of a hybrid.

With regards to future security measures, this is the biggest debate IMO.

for the record, I went to Northeastern University in the heart of Boston (approx 16k students). Several homicides have taken place on campus over the years but no evacuation protocols.

I have 2 friends that go to school at VT, and one of their dorm rooms is two floors above the shooting, where two of his friends were killed. I think it's a terrible thing that happened. I dunno I feel like I have a lot of input on this but getting into it all is too complicated.

I don't have too much problem with the way the police handled the situation. The thought they had the situation in hand, obviously they didn't, but as some others have mentioned you can't have a lock down everytime someone is raped or murdered. Especially when you have a "person of interest" in custody. There was no indication or precedent for the murderer of the first couple to go on a rampage. I can't think of another incident where two people were murdered and then the killer went on a massacre two hours later at a nearby location.

Secondly - I think NBC blew it. I'm not suprised they aired the video, but I really wish they hadn't. I think if they'd of just handed the package over to the FBI it wouldn't have gotten out any time soon. The Columbine killers made videos too, but by the time they were in the public view it was so long after the incident no one really gave a shit. In this case, it was too quick. Cho essentially got what he wished for.

Obviously there's going to be a lot of debate about the NBC decision, but it's interesting to see that the debate doesn't seem to have any ideological bent (as might be expected by conservative critics of NBC News).


http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archiv ... ers_video/


Should NBC Have Aired the Va Tech Killer’s Video?
By James Joyner

Hugh Hewitt strenuously objects to NBC’s decision to air the video made by Virginia Tech mass murderer Cho Seung-Hi, implying in his title that it may have been “The Single Worst Editorial Decision In The History Of Broadcast News.”



He’s got a point. Then again, one could argue that about any footage of terrorist attacks and coverage of still-on-the-loose serial killers. Should the networks have not aired the collapse of the World Trade Center so as to deny the terrorists an undeniable propaganda victory?

I’d say not. While Cho obviously wanted the video run, it’s not NBC’s job to spite him; rather, it is to report the news to their audience. Undeniably, the content of the video is news.

Further, while there’s such a thing as copycat crimes, I’m skeptical of the claim that people who would otherwise have led peaceful lives are going to be inspired to mass murder by the lure of 15 minutes of fame.

UPDATE: Here’s the video in question via YouTube.




UPDATE: WaPo’s Howie Kurtz and Bill Carterof the NYT weigh in.

Kurtz describes how NBC agonized over the decision and cooperated with authorities:



Carter focuses on the mechanics of the process more so than the ethics, noting “NBC executives had no explanation for why the network was singled out to receive the package, and nothing in the materials explained the action. Nothing on the envelope or in the package cited a specific individual at NBC.”

Take your time, but do find somewhere/someway to sort through it. I think the past few days have made it very evident that finding a means of expressing and/or coming to terms with whats bouncing around inside your head is a very essential aspect of being. Im sure everyone here would value your input. If you dont feel comfortable, find some means you are comfortable with. I dont agree with everything that has been posted here, but reading other's input has helped me to define my own perspective. I am sorry to read that you are having a tough time with this and I wish you the best.

Today one of my students said something about the Columbine killers being gay. Anyway, I never heard much about that so I did a search and wound up finding transcripts of these videos you are talking about. I read about a paragraph and realized I didn't care much about it now. But, if those videos had aired right after the attack, those kids would have gotten what Cho got.

That's the worst part. Cho got his wish.

Im torn on this one, sort of having my own little mini debate.

I agree Cho wanted the thing aired and I hate that this wish was satisfied. I do think that if it was released a month or whatever from now that it would have less impact and people would not care as much.

Then again, I also think having it aired, without editing and thoughts that maybe the media doctored it, helps calm the lust for this topic and helps people move on. I do think, if not for the packet, people would continue to debate his motives, etc and speculation over what the packet contained would dominate discussion, giving the story even more legs...and we would all be complaining b/c we felt someone was keeping something from us.

Anyway, gonna sit here on the fence for a little while longer.

It wouldn't have taken Sherlock Holmes to figure out what this guy was about. I haven't even seen the video , but it seems to me that the sentiments about this sob are the same today as they were before the video was released. It doesn't feel like anything has changed other than NBC's ratings.

Okay, now I need to run off and see the video. I already read his pathetic excuse of a screenplay.

Wow. After watching it I have to say that it showed me absolutely nothing I didn't already know.

Please, pd and anyone else who thinks this was worth airing, tell me what you learned. I have to know.

One of those 3 is correct, the second one is plausible, the third is ridiculously funny.

What's your point?

This is my take on the whole "should they have shut down the campus after the first incident" topic.

Last year a female student here at ISU was kidnapped from her apartment on campus. I didnt hear about this incident through a university e-mail, i heard about it through the news, like i would any other incident. Was the campus shut down? No. Was everybody told to be more cautious? Of course. At the time for all anyone knew there could have been a killer on the loose on campus, but no special precautions on campus were took. The only difference between the two situations is that at VT the bodies were there to be seen dead, here the girl was missing. I couldnt image them shutting down the campus because of that.

Its like if there was a murder in a house, would the police shut down all the businesses in the surrounding area because the killer was not yet caught? I highly doubt it.

"Rival (aka Growing up gay in Littleton)"

I know pd isnt me and he will probably have posted a response by the time I get this typed, but I like this line of discussion. I dont think anyone really learned anything that was not assumed, but I do think having something difinitive out there keeps the story from growing and keeps (insert media outlet here) from running a new story every so often about "shocking insights into the mind of a killer" or something of that vein, where they try to come up with some explaination and the logic, over time, grows less pronounced and the imagination and shock value of their productions have to be emphasized. I agree that nothing that was aired gave any new or unexpected insights, but at least its not a matter of debate or imagination any longer...

Still sitting on the fence.

Tech is a public school with a real police force. They're not rent-a-cops.

i was talking about logistics and it wasn't outside a red sox game it was on a college campus.

truly disgusting
************************

Anti-gay group to protest VTech funerals


from CBS.com

The families of those killed in the Virginia Tech massacre may not be able to grieve in peace at the funerals of those they lost. An anti-gay religious group known for protesting at the funerals of American soldiers killed in Iraq is planning on appearing at services for those killed on Monday as well.

The Topeka, Kan.-based Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), which is not affiliated with any national Baptist organization, announced plans to protest at victims’ funerals only hours after 32 people were killed in the worst mass shooting in U.S. history. They also may protest at other events on the Virginia Tech campus.

The organization, founded and led by Fred Phelps, believes the United States has condemned itself to destruction by accepting homosexuality and other “sins of the flesh.” Phelps’ daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the Virginia Tech teachers and students who died on Monday brought their fate upon themselves by not being true Christians.

“The evidence is they were not Christian. God does not do that to his servants,” Phelps-Roper said. “You don’t need to look any further for evidence those people are in hell.”

Cho Seung-Hui, the Virginia Tech student responsible for the killings who took his own life after the shootings, was sent by God to punish those he killed, and America as a whole, for moral decline, said Phelps-Roper, while adding that she believes Cho is also in hell for violating God’s commandment to not kill.

“He is in hell,” Phelps-Roper said. “But he was also fulfilling the word of God.”

Because of its virulent anti-gay message and condemnation of Catholics, Jews and other groups, the WBC has been classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League.

Curtis Dahn, the president of Virginia Tech’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Alliance, said he reacted with immediate disgust upon hearing of the WBC's plans. “Thirty-three people are dead and they’re using people’s deaths and people’s grief to further their own agenda and it’s just disgusting,” he said.

Dahn was friends with Ryan Clark, a resident assistant in Ambler Johnston Hall, who was among the first people killed on Monday. He said he is working with other university leaders and officials to form a response to the WBC. Ideally, he said, the funerals will be nothing more than a chance for family and friends to mourn in peace.

“Part of it is that I don’t want the families to be affected by this at all,” he said. “I don’t even want the funerals’ locations to be public knowledge. I don’t want a protest, I don’t want a counter-protest. I want people to be able to grieve and have what they want, not be made into public displays and mockeries.”

Dahn and others may have the law on their side. In 2006, in response to protests at the funerals of dead U.S. soldiers, Virginia enacted a law that added funerals and memorial services to the state’s disorderly conduct statute. Other states have adopted similar measures to allow police to keep WBC protesters out of earshot.

Yay!!!!