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 Post subject: New Court Wastes No Time On Debating Abortion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:45 pm 
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Quote:
Supreme Court Plunges Into Abortion Debate
By GINA HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer
13 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will consider the constitutionality of banning a type of late-term abortion, teeing up a contentious issue for a newly-constituted court already in a state of flux over privacy rights.

The Bush administration has pressed the high court to reinstate the federal law, passed in 2003 but never put in effect because it was struck down by judges in California, Nebraska and New York.

The outcome will likely rest with the two men that President Bush has recently installed on the court. Justices had been split 5-4 in 2000 in striking down a state law, barring what critics call partial birth abortion because it lacked an exception to protect the health of the mother.

But Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who was the tie-breaking vote, retired late last month and was replaced by Samuel Alito. Abortion had been a major focus in the fight over Alito's nomination because justices serve for life and he will surely help shape the court on abortion and other issues for the next generation.

Alito, in his rulings on the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia, has been more willing than O'Connor, the first woman justice, to allow restrictions on abortions, which were legalized in the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973.

The federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act prohibits a certain type of abortion, generally carried out in the second or third trimester, in which a fetus is partially removed from the womb, and the skull is punctured or crushed.

Justices on a 9-0 vote vote in a New Hampshire case reaffirmed in January that states can require parental involvement in abortion decisions and that state restrictions must have an exception to protect the mother's health.

The federal law in the current case has no health exception, but defenders maintain that the procedure is never medically necessary to protect a woman's health.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200602 ... s_abortion

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:02 pm 
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I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:23 pm 
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broken_iris wrote:
I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

That would be fine except that the values of the majority on the Supreme Court are contemporary for the McKinley administration.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:29 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

That would be fine except that the values of the majority on the Supreme Court are contemporary for the McKinley administration.


**zing**

i, unfortunately, have to agree. until the views of the court majority reflect the views of the majority of the people (assuming the majority of the u.s. public is in favor of keeping abortions legal) this will always be an issue.

a person would have thought that with two "new" justices that the views would modernize, but with w. in charge of the nominations, that certainly isn't the case. of course, one has to be careful between interchanging "modern" and "unchristian". a person can be perfectly contemporary, but hold views that are still tied to an overzealous/misinterpreted reading of the bible.

i've had one pregnancy scare with an ex-girlfriend and i now have to say that i am incredibly grateful that the option does exist (thankfully, we didn't have to follow that option).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:49 pm 
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I find it hard to believe that abortion would really be make illegal anytime soon. There will be a lot of talk and debate and votes, but I'm not sure anyone really wants to face the chaos that would erupt from abortion being made illegal. And if they are stupid enough to actually do so, then let the chaos and uproar begin.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:08 pm 
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Buggy wrote:
I find it hard to believe that abortion would really be make illegal anytime soon. There will be a lot of talk and debate and votes, but I'm not sure anyone really wants to face the chaos that would erupt from abortion being made illegal. And if they are stupid enough to actually do so, then let the chaos and uproar begin.


A lot of people vote based only on Pro-Life. Not that many vote only on Pro-Choice. I believe it would be closer than you think.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:22 pm 
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broken_iris wrote:
A lot of people vote based only on Pro-Life. Not that many vote only on Pro-Choice.


Could you clarify that? I'm just not sure what you mean. What kind of vote are you talking about?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:30 pm 
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ledbutter wrote:
i've had one pregnancy scare with an ex-girlfriend and i now have to say that i am incredibly grateful that the option does exist (thankfully, we didn't have to follow that option).


This is precisely the reason anybody is against abortion. I guarantee if it was only used in cases such as rape, life-threatening defects, etc., most conservatives wouldn't have a problem with it.

It's the "we just had sex and don't want to live with the consequences" attitude that the moderate conservatives hate.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:34 pm 
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Buggy wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
A lot of people vote based only on Pro-Life. Not that many vote only on Pro-Choice.


Could you clarify that? I'm just not sure what you mean. What kind of vote are you talking about?


I mean when "they" vote for politicians, they vote purely on a pro-life stance. Gun nuts are often the same way, single issue voters. I think most pro-choice people tend to vote based on a spectrum of issues.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:46 pm 
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broken_iris wrote:
I mean when "they" vote for politicians, they vote purely on a pro-life stance. Gun nuts are often the same way, single issue voters. I think most pro-choice people tend to vote based on a spectrum of issues.


Ah, indeed. Well I agree with you there. Generally speaking, it's easy to be a conservative voter because your stance is "I dont want things to change." Where as if you tend to be a more liberal voter your stance is "I want things to change, but we just cant agree on how." So you have more factions on the left then you do on the right.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:51 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
ledbutter wrote:
i've had one pregnancy scare with an ex-girlfriend and i now have to say that i am incredibly grateful that the option does exist (thankfully, we didn't have to follow that option).


This is precisely the reason anybody is against abortion. I guarantee if it was only used in cases such as rape, life-threatening defects, etc., most conservatives wouldn't have a problem with it.

It's the "we just had sex and don't want to live with the consequences" attitude that the moderate conservatives hate.


i completely agree. needless to say, my thoughts on sex have changed significantly since the episode.

on the flip side, i could say that these same moderate conservatives would rather increase the number of children in single parent, welfare-depending situations. when conventional birth control fails and the parties involved used it because they knew they weren't ready for parenthood (financially, mentally, emotionally, etc.) then i completely understand why they would choose to abort the pregnancy vs. bringing an unwanted child into an unfortunate situation. i'm not saying i agree with the line of thinking, but i certainly understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:01 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

That would be fine except that the values of the majority on the Supreme Court are contemporary for the McKinley administration.


How can you say this when 72% of Americans think partial birth abortion should be banned?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:04 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

That would be fine except that the values of the majority on the Supreme Court are contemporary for the McKinley administration.


How can you say this when 72% of Americans think partial birth abortion should be banned?

Because about 3% of them actually understand the procedure and when it is used.

It's hilarious to me that anyone would argue that it's OK to not have a "mother's health" exception in the law (like EVERY other abortion law is required to have, and has been upheld and upheld again by the Supreme Court). With late-term abortions, they are nearly ALWAYS done because the pregnancy poses a health threat (usually a very serious threat) to the mother. The number of elective late-term abortions has to be microscopic.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:13 pm 
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ledbutter wrote:

i completely agree. needless to say, my thoughts on sex have changed significantly since the episode.
.


:wink:

Are you saying real life experiences made you more conservative? My views on progressive taxation did a 180 when I bought a house. Wait till u go through that.



I wonder.... Soon we will have artifical wombs, what will become of the abortion debate then? Maybe society should set limits now before things get any more controversial.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:26 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
I think it's probably a good idea to re-examine roe v wade. Abortion technology has progressed a lot, as have ideas about when life really begins. Why not set new standards more in line with contemporary values?

That would be fine except that the values of the majority on the Supreme Court are contemporary for the McKinley administration.


How can you say this when 72% of Americans think partial birth abortion should be banned?

Because about 3% of them actually understand the procedure and when it is used.

It's hilarious to me that anyone would argue that it's OK to not have a "mother's health" exception in the law (like EVERY other abortion law is required to have, and has been upheld and upheld again by the Supreme Court). With late-term abortions, they are nearly ALWAYS done because the pregnancy poses a health threat (usually a very serious threat) to the mother. The number of elective late-term abortions has to be microscopic.


Well, if we're taking the moral route, I think you'd be hardpressed to find a majority of Americans that feel that any form of partial birth abortion, whether or not it contains an exception for the mother, is moral. I hardly doubt that the Supreme Court's moral position on this issue is more reflective of the McKinnley administration, as you suggest. There's a reason why Hillary Clinton is doing somewhat of an about-face with respect to abortion in general in preparation for her possible run at the White House. It's very hard to dispute that those that favor zero restrictions on abortion are in the absolute minority.

Also, with respect to partial birth abortions almost ALWAYS being performed in conjunction with a health threat, didn't the leading panel of medical professionals that testified on behalf of NOW and Planned Parenthood before Congress recant their testimony and admit that the numbers were skewed and that the procedure as an elective measure was performed more than a miniscule percentage of times? I seem to recall this when the bill was being introduced. But perhaps I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
The number of elective late-term abortions has to be microscopic.

Since when should the number of times an event occurs deem if it should be legal.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:57 pm 
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tyler wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
The number of elective late-term abortions has to be microscopic.

Since when should the number of times an event occurs deem if it should be legal.


One could argue that our entire system of laws is based on how often something happens.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:00 pm 
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I believe abortion is terribly wrong, horribly terribly wrong (even in the cases of rape or incest, though I know it is an unfair burden to the mother) , and should only be excercised when there is a profound chance the mother could die, and there is little other than abortion medical science can do...

but I do not think abortion should be made illegal....

(Keep in mind I am a religous person)

I think the problems that would arise from Illegalizing abortion are greater than the ones that come from legal abortion....

If someone wants an abortion bad enough they will get it, and if it's illegal that means that chances are, they are going to to find other unsafe methods to do it...

Methods such as Pennyroyal Tea, purposeful malnutrition, "falling down a flight of stairs", and lets not forget our old favorite the coat hanger.....

Making Abortion Illegal will probably not curb the numbers of abortions in this country, and will probably result in a dramatic increase in problems stemming from unsafe self-treatment...



The solution lies in stopping the abortion before it even becomes a train of thought,....

Condoms....

JUST FUCKING WEAR EM!

I don't know about you, but the God I know would rather have you fling a piece of soiled latex into the trash than for you to have an abortion, or a child out of wedlock....

and you know what? condoms are free!!! go to planned parenthood... I went there and said I was having a party, and that alot of people were coming and that I wanted everyone to be smart and use a condom and guess how many condoms I got??? like 75!

75 free condoms!!!

If you read that line, and still manage to get pregnant on accident, go kill yourself.... don't really but know this, you are an idiot....

god Bless Dr. Drew....

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:17 pm 
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Babies are dumb. Kill 'em! That's part of evolution. If they're meant to survive, they'll find a way to overcome the burden of legal abortions.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:24 pm 
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B wrote:
Babies are dumb. Kill 'em! That's part of evolution. If they're meant to survive, they'll find a way to overcome the burden of legal abortions.


If you're meant to survive, you'll find a way to overcome the bullet wound I'm about to inflict on you. :P

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