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 Post subject: Re: What should be done about climate change?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:03 pm 
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vacatetheword wrote:
This kind of rubbish is not welcome here.


About Dr. Reid Bryson

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Reid A. Bryson holds the 30th PhD in Meteorology granted in the history of American education. Emeritus Professor and founding chairman of the University of Wisconsin Department of Meteorology—now the Department of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences—in the 1970s he became the first director of what’s now the UW’s Gaylord Nelson Institute of Environmental Studies. He’s a member of the United Nations Global 500 Roll of Honor—created, the U.N. says, to recognize “outstanding achievements in the protection and improvement of the environment.” He has authored five books and more than 230 other publications and was identified by the British Institute of Geographers as the most frequently cited climatologist in the world.

Bryson is a believer in climate change, in that he’s as quick as anyone to acknowledge that Earth’s climate has done nothing but change throughout the planet’s existence. In fact, he took that knowledge a big step further, earlier than probably anyone else. Almost 40 years ago, Bryson stood before the American Association for the Advancement of Science and presented a paper saying human activity could alter climate.

“I was laughed off the platform for saying that,” he told Wisconsin Energy Cooperative News.

In the 1960s, Bryson’s idea was widely considered a radical proposition. But nowadays things have turned almost in the opposite direction: Hardly a day passes without some authority figure claiming that whatever the climate happens to be doing, human activity must be part of the explanation. And once again, Bryson is challenging the conventional wisdom.


vacatetheword wrote:
Post it elsewhere, or grow a brain and stop posting it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Heh. Care for a retraction Laura?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:52 pm 
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I love it when global warming conspiracy theorists get faced with differing scientific opinions. They just basically yell "Bullshit".

There are so many valid scientists refuting the claims of the global warming movement. We just rarely get to hear about it because the media and our government has decided to run with the global warming crowd. Why? It's all about agenda. Money. Taxes on "carbon offsets" and any other ridiculous thing they can think of.

I'm sure there is some validity to environmental concerns about climate change. But there is by no means a consensus and there are a lot of other important things we as a society should be focusing attention on.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
I love it when global warming conspiracy theorists get faced with differing scientific opinions. They just basically yell "Bullshit".


They do?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:30 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
I love it when global warming conspiracy theorists get faced with differing scientific opinions. They just basically yell "Bullshit".


They do?


Yeah. A lot of them do.

Look back at the last page or so. People are so quick to dismiss the writings of a phd in meteorology because they don't fit in with their version of reality. People with no scientific credentials will readily call bullshit on someone, even if that person is an expert on the subject.

None of us here know the real story on climate change. But many of us have chosen which side they want to believe and which facts are actual and which facts are falsehoods.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:00 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
I love it when global warming conspiracy theorists get faced with differing scientific opinions. They just basically yell "Bullshit".


They do?


Yeah. A lot of them do.

Look back at the last page or so. People are so quick to dismiss the writings of a phd in meteorology because they don't fit in with their version of reality. People with no scientific credentials will readily call bullshit on someone, even if that person is an expert on the subject.

None of us here know the real story on climate change. But many of us have chosen which side they want to believe and which facts are actual and which facts are falsehoods.


so whats the real story then?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:03 pm 
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invention wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
I love it when global warming conspiracy theorists get faced with differing scientific opinions. They just basically yell "Bullshit".


They do?


Yeah. A lot of them do.

Look back at the last page or so. People are so quick to dismiss the writings of a phd in meteorology because they don't fit in with their version of reality. People with no scientific credentials will readily call bullshit on someone, even if that person is an expert on the subject.

None of us here know the real story on climate change. But many of us have chosen which side they want to believe and which facts are actual and which facts are falsehoods.


so whats the real story then?


I don't know.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:50 pm 
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Good stuff...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:01 am 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
Heh. Care for a retraction Laura?

Absolutely not. His post was utter nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: What should be done about climate change?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:11 am 
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Ok guys I'm a bit too drunk to handle this properly, but here goes.

2. It is a fact that the warming of the past century was anthropogenic in origin, i.e. man-made and due to carbon dioxide emission.

Wrong.

That is a theory for which there is no credible proof. There are a number of causes of climatic change, and until all causes other than carbon dioxide increase are ruled out, we cannot attribute the change to carbon dioxide alone.

Get back to me when you DISprove it.
Have we ruled out the possibility that the spaghetti monster causes the moon to rotate around the earth? No? Well we can't attribute it to the gravitational pull of the earth then, by this logic.

3. The most important gas with a "greenhouse" effect is carbon dioxide.

Wrong.

Water vapor is at least 100 times as effective as carbon dioxide, so small variations in water vapor are more important than large changes in carbon dioxide.

The amount of water vapour in the earth is in equilibrium and does not change significantly.

6. It is the consensus of scientists in general that carbon-dioxide-induced warming of the climate is a fact.

Probably wrong.

I know of no vote having been taken, and know that if such a vote were taken of those who are most vocal about the matter, it would include a significant fraction of people who do not know enough about climate to have a significant opinion. Taking a vote is a risky way to discover scientific truth.

Good description of what would happen if the doubters voted.
Look up the journal article in Science (i don't have the time now) which went through a FUCKing lot of journal articles and counted how many had credible contrary evidence! Practically none.

So What Can We Say about Global Warming?

We can say that the Earth has most probably warmed in the past century.

Probably? Temperature records from physical thermometers all over the planet don't convince you of the warming of the past century?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:12 pm 
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So, we can and can't prove global warming...

Sounds like a great reason to throw the worlds economy's into turmoil and tread all over all kinds of petty materialistic freedoms.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:46 pm 
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I GOTTA BE HONEST
I GOTTA BE HONEST
I GOTTA BE HONEST

The scientists are just being political. They hate capitalism and America.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:01 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
I GOTTA BE HONEST
I GOTTA BE HONEST
I GOTTA BE HONEST

The scientists are just being political. They hate capitalism and America.
Honesty is recognizing the Kyoto Acord for what it really is. It's a trade agreement. It's not truly about the environment, it's truly a trade agreement. If it was about the environment they'd be tackling greenhouse gas consuming countires rather than greenhouse gas producing countries. They've just made another international trade agreement that shafts third world countries and does absolutely nothing about attacking the problem where it lies, with what we consume.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:49 am 
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nothing, i hope that everyone dies, we dont deserve to live in this beautiful planet, people are putting money and power in the 1st place, that's our people, our leaders. no one cares about the future, countries are getting what they can now.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:52 am 
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uihu, that was rebel

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:45 pm 
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"Here is the truth: the core of our energy crisis is in Washington. We have all the technology we need right now to make huge inroads in becoming more energy efficient and energy independent, with drastically lower emissions. We have all the capital we need as well. But because of the unique nature of the energy and climate-change issues — which require incentives and regulations to build alternatives to dirty, but cheap, fossil fuels — you need public policy to connect the energy and capital the right way. That is what has been missing.

The public wants it. But energy policy gets shaped in the halls of Congress — where wily lobbyists, legacy industries and politicians greedy for campaign contributions regularly sell out the country’s interests for their own. Only when the public really rises up — as it has finally done against the auto companies — do we even get moderate change. "


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:47 pm 
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corky wrote:
"Here is the truth: the core of our energy crisis is in Washington. We have all the technology we need right now to make huge inroads in becoming more energy efficient and energy independent, with drastically lower emissions. We have all the capital we need as well. But because of the unique nature of the energy and climate-change issues — which require incentives and regulations to build alternatives to dirty, but cheap, fossil fuels — you need public policy to connect the energy and capital the right way. That is what has been missing.

The public wants it. But energy policy gets shaped in the halls of Congress — where wily lobbyists, legacy industries and politicians greedy for campaign contributions regularly sell out the country’s interests for their own. Only when the public really rises up — as it has finally done against the auto companies — do we even get moderate change. "

yup. who said this?

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 Post subject: Re: What should be done about climate change?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm 
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Thomas Friedman - The New York Times


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 Post subject: Re: What should be done about climate change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:17 am 
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So what is it? You got one liberal journalist who says that the people surely want this. But that it's BIG OIL standing in the way. Then you got Psychobain up there sayin' that people just don't give a shit. So which is it?

Do people not care? Or is the government going to force us to care because we're obviously too stupid to correct this problem ourselves, take our money away from us, and dump it into whatever alternative energy outfits they see fit? Say...like multi-billion dollar ethanol plants that take more fossil fuels to operate than they save?

What a great day we live in when there are people out there that want to run the global economy into the ground in the name of something that might be happening.

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 Post subject: Re: What should be done about climate change?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:50 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
So what is it? You got one liberal journalist who says that the people surely want this. But that it's BIG OIL standing in the way. Then you got Psychobain up there sayin' that people just don't give a shit. So which is it?

Do people not care? Or is the government going to force us to care because we're obviously too stupid to correct this problem ourselves, take our money away from us, and dump it into whatever alternative energy outfits they see fit? Say...like multi-billion dollar ethanol plants that take more fossil fuels to operate than they save?

What a great day we live in when there are people out there that want to run the global economy into the ground in the name of something that might be happening.



Well... whether or not you believe in AGW, you had better believe that hydrocrabon fuels are running out and from an economic perspective we need to start working on a replacement now. It doesn't take a genius to see that non-hydrocarbon energy generation (solar, wind, nuclear) is the next economic boom and that monopolist policies in the energy sector are blocking progress. It's not "big oil", which is really a bunch of socialist government agencies not Exxon-mobil and Shell, it's state and local level politicians who refuse to allow household generated energy to be fed back into the grids. Once local governments allow property owners to sell excess electricity they generate in the marketplace, we will see a revolution in solar and wind technology. There is NO NEED FOR CARBON TAXES, only a removal of monopolist contracts awarded to regional power generation companies.

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