I guess I didn't realize how serious this was. Looks I have some reading up to do on the doings in Israel and Palestine the past couple months.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Hamas fighters overran two of the rival Fatah movement's most important security command centers in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, and witnesses said the victors dragged vanquished gunmen into the street and shot them to death execution-style.
Meanwhile, an Israeli tank shell struck a group of siblings near the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on Thursday, Hamas security officials said. Hospital workers said five children, all under 16, were killed.

They identified the children as members of the Abu Matrok family.

Hamas security officials said they were from the Bedouin community of Showka, east of Rafah.

The army said it would look into the report.

Hamas also seized control of Rafah in the south, Gaza's third-largest city, according to witnesses and security officials. It was the second main Gaza city to fall to the militants, who captured nearby Khan Younis on Wednesday.

Hamas captured the Preventive Security headquarters and the intelligence services building n Gaza City, major advances in the Islamic group's attempts to take over Gaza.

After the rout at the Preventive Security headquarters, some of the Hamas fighters kneeled outside, touching their foreheads to the ground in prayer. Others led Fatah gunmen out of the building, some shirtless or in their underwear, holding their arms in the air. Several of the Fatah men flinched as the crack of gunfire split the air.

A witness, who identified himself only as Amjad, said men were killed as their wives and children watched.

"They are executing them one by one," Amjad said in a telephone interview, declining to give his full name for fear of reprisals. "They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting."

Fatah officials said Hamas shot and killed seven of its fighters outside the Preventive Security building. A doctor at Shifa Hospital, said he examined two bodies that had been shot in the head at close range. The officials and the doctor spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

Militants and civilians were looting the compound, hauling out computers, documents, office equipment, furniture and TVs.

The moderate President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, for the first time in five days of fierce fighting, ordered his elite presidential guard to strike back. But his forces were crumbling fast under the onslaught by the better-armed and better-disciplined Islamic fighters.

In all, 14 fighters and civilians were killed and 80 wounded in the battle for the Preventive Security complex, bringing the day's death toll to 25 by mid-afternoon, hospital and security officials said. About 90 people, mostly fighters but also women and children, have been killed since a spike in violence Sunday sent Gaza into civil war.

The two factions have warred sporadically since Hamas took power from Fatah last year, but never with such intensity. Hamas reluctantly brought Fatah into the coalition in March to quell an earlier round of violence, but the uneasy partnership began crumbling last month over control of the powerful security forces.

Hamas had been tightening its ring around the Preventive Security complex for three days, stepping up its assault late Wednesday, with a barrage of bullets, grenades, mortar rounds and land mines that continued until the compound fell. Electricity and telephone lines were cut, and roads leading to the complex were blocked. Hamas claimed it confiscated two cars filled with arms sent as reinforcements.

As Hamas took this major battle spoil, the Palestine Liberation Organization's top body recommended that Abbas declare a state of emergency and dismantle Fatah's governing coalition with Hamas. Abbas said he would review the recommendations and make decision within hours, said an aide, Nabil Amr.

"We are telling our people that the past era has ended and will not return," Islam Shahawan, a spokesman for Hamas' militia, told Hamas radio. "The era of justice and Islamic rule have arrived."

Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman, heralded what he called "Gaza's second liberation," after Israel's 2005 evacuation of the coastal strip.

Israel was watching the carnage closely, concerned the clashes might spawn attacks on its southern border. Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz told a weekly meeting of security officials that Israel would not allow the violence to spread into attacks on southern Israel, meeting participants said.

The European Union said it suspended humanitarian aid projects in the Gaza Strip, citing the escalating violence there.

The Islamic group also had its sights on two other key command centers in Gaza City on Thursday.

In a broadcast on Hamas radio, the Islamic fighters demanded that Fatah surrender the National Security compound by mid-afternoon. Light clashes were under way there when the ultimatum was delivered.

Rocket-propelled grenades were fired toward Abbas' Gaza compound, provoking return fire from his presidential guard. For the first time since the fighting began, Abbas ordered his guard to go on the offensive against Hamas at the compound, and not simply maintain a defensive posture, an aide said.

He spoke on condition of anonymity because the situation was fluid.

Earlier Hamas fired dozens of rocket-propelled grenades at the intelligence services building. When they captured it, the fighters raised the green Islamic flag.

In Rafah, Hamas took over the Preventive Security building, according to witnesses and said Col. Nasser Khaldi, a senior police official.

"I can see the Preventive Security building in front of me. Hamas has raised its green flags over it," a civilian resident, who identified himself only as Raed, said by telephone. "There are men carrying away equipment from inside. ... (The Fatah-allied) National Security men ran away."

Gaza hospitals were operating without water, electricity and blood. Even holed up inside their homes, Gazans weren't able to escape fighting that turned apartment buildings into battlefields.

Moean Hammad, 34, said life had become a nightmare at his high-rise building near the Preventive Security headquarters, where Fatah forces on the rooftop were battling Hamas fighters.

"We spent our night in the hallway outside the apartment because the building came under crossfire," Hammad said. "We haven't had electricity for two days, and all we can hear is shooting and powerful, earthshaking explosions.

"The world is watching us dying and doing nothing to help. God help us, we feel like we are in a real-life horror movie," he said.

Shaher Hatoum, a nurse at nearby Al Quds hospital, said the facility had no electricity, water or blood, and that wounded were propped up on ward floors. Hundreds of bullets flew through windows, and fighters ignored the hospital's appeals to hold fire just long enough to have the generator and water pipes fixed, he said.

"We are waiting here for our end," Hatoum said.

Fatah has threatened to carry the fighting to the West Bank, where Hamas is weak. There have been sporadic battles in the West Bank this week, and on Thursday, Fatah went across the territory rounding up Hamas fighters in an effort to assert control.

Sheik Saleh Arrouri, a Hamas leader in the West Bank, told a radio station that Abbas called a joint meeting of the territory's Fatah and Hamas leadership in Ramallah for later Thursday.

The violence has exposed the depths of the disarray in Fatah's ranks since Hamas ended Fatah's 40-year dominion of Palestinian politics last year.

Fatah has asked Israeli permission to bring in more arms and armored vehicles, but Tzahi Hanegbi, chairman of the Israeli parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, told Army Radio that arming Fatah would be "insane" because the weapons would fall into Hamas hands.

He said Israel was considering backing Fatah forces in the West Bank, but did not elaborate.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Wednesday he discussed the possible deployment of a multinational force in Gaza with the Security Council.

Watching with baited breath. All the options suck. May as well rename Palestine "Hamastan".

Meh, can't find the ol' Gaza thread, so this'll have to do. If y'all have been paying any attention, you would know that Gaza's government and civil society has stopped functioning alltogether as Fatah loyalists are paid to stay at home, and the humanitarian situation is degrading as Israel is strictly controlling the flow of fuel and supplies into the area.

The UN is, of course roundly critizing the situation, as it well should. However: what should Israel's recourse be to the rockets and other attacks carried out by militants? If a region fails to meet the most basic definition of a state and has armed men attack adjacent states from within its borders, what do its neighbors have as a recourse? Would Israel be within its rights to mount military incursions for every rocket attack? Clearly this whole blockade thing isn't working, is morally objectionable and probably wrong headed, but what would Israel, or any other state actor for that matter be allowed to do when confronted by a failed state? (Or failed mini-state in this instance)

Israel's problems go beyond occasional blockades and incursions into Gaza with a couple dead school children. They've significantly damaged their reputation amongst Arab and Western leaders by disobeying various treaties (and some Jewish scholars have gone so far as to call them anti-Semitic, big surprise) and basically dominating most of the land in the West Bank which had been specifically reserved for Palestinian development. It is vastly unfair of the Israelis to come in and take family land away from Palestinians and then give it to rich Jews from New York or Philly who have absolutely zero entitlement to it. Period. Israel is largely to blame for their own problems with the Palestinians. You want to talk about rocket attacks? Those rockets are pieces of shit made with scrap parts in subterranean Gaza cellars. The Israelis are fiercely nationalistic, and their lobbying power in Washington is unstoppable. You have to remember that Israel was founded on some just principles, but also with a consequential amount of blood shed...some of Israel's founders could rightfully be considered terrorists themselves.

Quite frankly I'm sick of Israel, they suck big time. But what is anyone supposed to do? The U.S. refuses to compromise, especially with Evangelicals in control of Washington (no rationality in that crowd - just search Youtube for "Evangelical, pro-Israel lobby") and I'm convinced that if you threaten to take away that money and influence we'd at least have a chance for some reconciliation. It doesn't help much that the Palestinian leadership has also consisted of a corrupt group of charlatans who make promises to their citizens, break them, and then take their money. What the Palestinians have done to themselves is bad enough, but when you're a 12 year-old Gaza boy with no running water and essentially no future, blaming Jewish ethnicity and resorting to armed conflict sounds like a great idea. I can at least understand the concept behind suicide bombing and why people in Palestine empathize with their family members detonating themselves in Tel-Aviv nightclubs even if they might want peace and not harbor all that much hatred against Israel in the first place.

I get all that, and yes, Israel should have never extended beyond the green line but the issue I'm dealing with here is the failed state that is Gaza. Hell, Israel couldn't have possibly appropriated any significant land from Gaza as it was tiny to begin with. Do you think those rockets are being fired in solidarity with those in the West Bank who actually have had land taken from them? The West Bank is a whole 'nother story. The problem is, Israel at least has someone nominally in control of the West Bank to talk with, if both sides ever got serious about a peace talk, but they have nothing of the sort in Gaza. The bigger issue I'm getting at here is the notion of failed states, and how they should be approached. Ethiopia has been criticized for its incursion into Somalia, which is by most accounts a failed state. Its actions have undoubtedly brought additional suffering upon the civilian population. Perhaps the martial law it imposed could be considered 'collective punishment' somewhat like what Israel is doing in Gaza. However, what else can outside state actors do when dealing with a lack of governance?

*Oh, and some on the internet refer to Youtube as "JooTube", and I intend to remain consistent with this practice, so take note of it.

I honestly haven't been following the current situation close enough because I got sick of discussing Israel's invasion of Lebanon two years ago. If there's no government to negotiate with in Gaza, both sides are fucked, which means that eventually Israel will withdraw, with occasional and similar incursions and occupations in the coming years. That's the only real conclusion I'm getting from this. Going in and killing a few militants every so often doesn't really do a whole lot of good, does it. Something drastic would have to happen to give those people in the Gaza Strip any resemblance to normal conditions in which to live. A military lock-down doesn't really do shit.

As far as I know, most Israelis were furious when their government decided to stop building settlements in Gaza. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued, and as fucked up as it is they probably should have. It might have brought some civility to the area in the long term, it's not like they'll ever have any moral or ethical imperative for the time being.

Israel's got some long term demographics problems as the only ones making babies are the conservative religious Jews and the Arab Israelis. Them's some fun politics down the road.

Note to Atheists: make moar babies!

Haven't you heard? Atheists hate children

I've heard they have abortions for shits and giggles.

Is there any better reason?


An interesting question is, if Palestine were to become a unified state, would that improve the situation with Israel? Fatah and Hamas would be a more dangerous and powerful force if they unified their efforts against TEH JEWZ!!111!! than they are with all this infighting.

Good primer on the whole Gaza situation from Slate:

I think it might be cynical to think that the differences between Palestinians and Israelis can't be solved within our lifetimes. We seem to critique the situation as being essentially the same as it has been for the last 2000 years, which in a lot of ways isn't true. It's only been modernized and militarized for about 60.

But if Bill Clinton failed, what hope do we have!?!?!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080126195117.oxyo1n3k&show_article=1

Fistfights as Gazans clear Egyptian shelves
Jan 26 02:51 PM US/Eastern


Supplies began running out in Egyptian border towns Saturday after a four-day rush by hundreds of thousands of Gazans across the breached frontier, sparking fistfights and sky-rocketing prices.

With the flow of goods and people continuing unabated despite a half-hearted attempt by Egyptian security forces to restore order on Friday, local governor Ahmed Abdel-Hamid vowed to help the Palestinians to buy what they needed.

"Palestinians will continue to cross until they get all their needs of commodities and foodstuffs" in response to an Israeli lockdown on the impoverished territory, he said.

Abdel-Hamid said he was coordinating with the social solidarity and industry ministries "to secure large amounts of commodities and products to meet the needs of the Palestinians in the country" because many shops had run out.

Fighting erupted at a petrol station on the Egyptian side of the border town of Rafah as stocks ran out, and one petrol attendant was hospitalised after a brawl with Palestinians and Egyptians desperate for fuel.

The petrol station owner refused to sell any more fuel, one of the most popular commodities to take back into the Gaza Strip, until security forces arrived calm the situation.

Many of the cars waiting to fill up with petrol, now double the cost of three days ago when militants blew up the border fence, had Palestinian licence plates.

Despite the governor's claims to be sending fresh supplies, retired Egyptian army officer Samir Mohammed Hassan said the authorities were blocking trucks.

"We Egyptians in El-Arish cannot find anything any more because the Egyptian authorities have apparently given the order to stop all merchandise from getting through," said Hassan.

"We're not unhappy that they're here, quite the opposite. But we also want to live and buy things at a normal price because the shopkeepers make no difference between Egyptians and Palestinians and sell their products at inflated prices."

Building materials supplier Mohammed al-Sutari complained that the cost of cement had skyrocketed from 220 Egyptian pounds a tonne (36 dollars) to 300 dollars -- adding that the same product can be sold in Gaza for 500 dollars.

"The taxi that we took before from Rafah to El-Arish (45 kilometres, 30 miles away) used to cost three pounds and now it's 150," he said. "We are stuck between the Israeli blockade at home and overblown prices in Egypt.

"Where are the Arab countries that should have sent food aid immediately as soon as they heard the border was open?"

Hanan Abu Zeid has spent 500 dollars in two days "only on staples, which will barely last a month," she said, adding that a sheep that cost 100 dollars on Wednesday now costs 250.

Egyptian shopkeeper Sahar said that wholesalers in Ismailiya, 225 kilometres (140 miles) away, have raised the prices, not traders in Rafah. A box of potato crisps that cost 20 Egyptian pounds on Thursday now costs 30.

Palestinians said that prices in Gaza itself were now almost back to normal, with a carton of cigarettes down from a high of 42 shekels during the Israeli lockdown now costing 10 shekels -- the same as before Hamas took over in June.

"The shops here aren't helping us. Lots of them are exploiting us. Cheese that I bought for 50 Egyptian pounds a kilo on the first day (Wednesday) now costs 70," said Nahla Abdel Aal, a 43-year-old mother of nine.

"The prices are nearly the same as in Gaza."



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THey almost had a moment of clarity seep through there.... but they lost it.

wouldn't be the first time