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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:30 pm 
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"endowed by their creator." i believe it too. christian nation, baby!

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:34 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
"endowed by their creator." i believe it too. christian nation, baby!


I was created by my mom.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:02 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
"endowed by their creator." i believe it too. christian nation, baby!



declaration of indie

replaced by the constitution ... the ultimate law of the land which speaks nothing about some invisible guy in the sky


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Uggh. This sucks. :evil:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/26/scotus.guns/index.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:41 pm 
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I actually agree with the decision. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:41 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:46 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?


Because (call me crazy) I don't trust my fellow citizens of Chicago to lawfully brandish weapons. And because of this decision, Chicago's ban is probably gone.

Oh, and because I hate guns.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:50 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?
Any other decision would have scared me. It would be a scary proposition if states and municipalities could make laws that override the constitution.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm 
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tyler wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?
Any other decision would have scared me. It would be a scary proposition if states and municipalities could make laws that override the constitution.


First, the Bill of Rights is a protection against the Federal government, not state or municipalities. It was only through the 14th Amendment that most, but not all, amendments applied to the states. That's why amendments not specifically incorporated arguably do not apply to states or municipalities (like the 7th Amendment).

Second, I've never read the 2nd Amendment to explicitly guarantee the public's right to bear arms. What I do read it to mean is the guarantee of those that make up the militia (which was, at the time, the general citizenry) to keep arms. Otherwise, the two independent clauses don't make much sense in the same amendment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:26 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?


Because (call me crazy) I don't trust my fellow citizens of Chicago to lawfully brandish weapons. And because of this decision, Chicago's ban is probably gone.

Oh, and because I hate guns.


All of the people that you're in danger from have guns already, most likely.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:39 pm 
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awesome, glad they got something right. 5-4 is still too close IMO

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?


Because (call me crazy) I don't trust my fellow citizens of Chicago to lawfully brandish weapons. And because of this decision, Chicago's ban is probably gone.

Oh, and because I hate guns.


All of the people that you're in danger from have guns already, most likely.


I'm not sure. My friend is pretty law abiding, but he's also pretty careless. I don't trust people like him who are sitting in a coffeeshop with a gun in their pants.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
tyler wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:


why?
Any other decision would have scared me. It would be a scary proposition if states and municipalities could make laws that override the constitution.


First, the Bill of Rights is a protection against the Federal government, not state or municipalities. It was only through the 14th Amendment that most, but not all, amendments applied to the states. That's why amendments not specifically incorporated arguably do not apply to states or municipalities (like the 7th Amendment).

Second, I've never read the 2nd Amendment to explicitly guarantee the public's right to bear arms. What I do read it to mean is the guarantee of those that make up the militia (which was, at the time, the general citizenry) to keep arms. Otherwise, the two independent clauses don't make much sense in the same amendment.
i'm with you on this. and any decision that has a 5-4 majority with those 5 is always suspect.

this case was specific to washington dc? i'm not clear on that


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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Theresa wrote:
any decision that has a 5-4 majority with those 5 is always suspect.


hmm it sure is isn't it... wonder how many times it's gone the other with a 5-4 majority

only DC is affected as far as i know

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:08 pm 
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The case and decision itself applied only to DC, but you better bet that more cases will be made claiming this set a precedent.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:29 pm 
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I give a :thumbsup: to the ruling...
First off, there's no logical way to enforce gun laws preventing ownership except by enforcing a police state mentality. Sure, you can ban stores from selling them, but that simply means that someone either has to find a black market dealer, or go out of town and purchase one in another place, where guns ARE legal, and bring it back. There is really no way to crack down on those people(the second kind).
And the fact that those who wish to commit crime have a significant advantage over those who don't, and have no fear that they may have a gun.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:31 pm 
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dkfan9 wrote:
I give a :thumbsup: to the ruling...
First off, there's no logical way to enforce gun laws preventing ownership except by enforcing a police state mentality. Sure, you can ban stores from selling them, but that simply means that someone either has to find a black market dealer, or go out of town and purchase one in another place, where guns ARE legal, and bring it back. There is really no way to crack down on those people(the second kind).
And the fact that those who wish to commit crime have a significant advantage over those who don't, and have no fear that they may have a gun.

Not to mention the fact that the constitution is pretty clear on the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:50 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
I give a :thumbsup: to the ruling...
First off, there's no logical way to enforce gun laws preventing ownership except by enforcing a police state mentality. Sure, you can ban stores from selling them, but that simply means that someone either has to find a black market dealer, or go out of town and purchase one in another place, where guns ARE legal, and bring it back. There is really no way to crack down on those people(the second kind).
And the fact that those who wish to commit crime have a significant advantage over those who don't, and have no fear that they may have a gun.

Not to mention the fact that the constitution is pretty clear on the issue.


A lot of this debate reminds me of a moment from the movie "The American President"(the one with Michael Douglas) in which he praises the ACLU for defending the Constitution then in the next breath talks about his new crime bill that will crackdown on gun ownership. Hey man, just cause it's no. 2 doesn't mean it's non-existent...

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 Post subject: Re: The Supreme Court Decision Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:26 pm 
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If one had such a restrictive view of the second ammendment as to only apply to 'state militias', then it'd be pretty meaningless these days as they've all been federalized.


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