Three out of 10 US public school students do not graduate from high school, and major city school districts only graduate one out of two students, according to a study released Tuesday.
In a report on graduation rates around the country, the EPE Research Center and the America Promise Alliance also showed that the high school graduation rate -- finishing 12 grades of school -- in big cities falls to as low as just 34.6 percent in Baltimore, Maryland, and barely over 40 percent for the troubled Ohio cities of Columbus and Cleveland.

And it said that black and native American student's have effectively a one-in-two chance of getting a high school diploma.

"Our analysis finds that graduating from high school in America's largest cities amounts, essentially, to a coin toss," the study said.

"Only about one-half (52 percent) of students in the principal school systems of the 50 largest cities complete high school with a diploma."

Based on 2003-2004 data, the report said that across the country the graduation average for public school students is 69.9 percent, with the best success rate in suburbs -- 74.9 percent -- and rural districts -- 73.2 percent.

Asian-Americans score the highest graduation rate, at 80 percent, with whites at 76.2 percent and Hispanics at 57.8 percent.

Women graduate at a much higher rate than men, 73.6 percent to 66.0 percent.

In the country's city schools, the study found that in urban areas generally, just 60.4 percent graduate, and in the principal school districts of the top 50 cities, barely half graduate.

Detroit, Michigan's main school district scored a graduation rate of 24.9 percent.

New York, the country's largest city, has a graduation rate for its main school district of 45.2 percent, and Los Angeles, the second largest, of 45.3 percent.

Only five of the principal school districts topped the national average.

We obviously need more public schools. Clearly more of a monopoly over this business is the solution.

Oh, Christ, LW, are we going this route again? I really don't want to repeat thoughts I've offered multiple times before. I love you to death, but it seems like I bring up the same notes over and over again on this topic.

So avoiding all those points, since you've witnessed them before, and skipping past suggested reading, to what degree to you feel this is a schooling issue, and to what degree to you feel it is influenced by:

A. Societal factors
B. Parents

Surely the public school system hasn't been responsible for creating all those doctors, scientists, military leaders, and internationally-recognized CEOs that have made America the most supreme economic war machine in the entire fucking history of the world.

Oh yeah. Because I mean, if that was the case, then why would Obama and Clinton be so afraid of school competition? I was under the impression that anything other than monolopolized government schools was unfair to everyone else, and left the upperclass with an overwhelmingly unfair advantage to continue their hegemony over fields such as "doctors, scientists, military leaders, and internationally recognized CEO's."

I wonder how many internationally recognized CEO's are sending their kids to a public school?

Better yet, I wonder how many politicians in Washington are sending their kids to a public school? I wonder how many of their children participate in school bussing programs for diversities sake?

And of course, the fact that some of those high end jobs end up as a result of public education means that a 30% drop out rate overall, and 50% drop out rates in metropolitan areas, and 61% in Rochester is A-OK.

You know what's awesome. In healthcare, 40 million people in this country don't have insurance. That is touted by people like you, GV, as a gross, absurd, disgusting failure levied onto the American people. Yet, when it comes to schools that have failed 1/3 of our children, you run right to the defense of it. You are the type of person who is always there complaining about Wal*Mart being too big, and how monopolies lead to innefficiencies that inevitably fail the people. Yet, when it comes to schools, you expect the government to monopolize the most critical facet to society. And when it fails, you jump right to its defense.

McParadigm, I agree with that what you speak of has a significant impact on graduation rates. However, you would be foolish to deny that the public school system is an utterly defunct system that is completely incapable of correcting this problem to even...the slightest extent.

I bet Mr. Obama thinks I should have pay for the healthcare of these dropouts? I should have to pay their mortgage? Pay for their food stamps? Pay for them to abort their punishments?

I stand corrected. The public school system produces homicidal, anti-social rage-aholics like yourself. It must be demolished.

I highlighted the part I do agree with, although probably not for the same reason you feel. But I'm not prepared to discuss it any further until you let me know just to what extent you think that dropout rates are influenced by the three mentioned factors.

Repeated:
- The education system
- Society
- Parents

Ugh, I tried to post about this twice and my computer fucked up both times. Just know that I work in a public school and you're completely wrong, LW.

When is he right?

(no pun intended)

wild guesses:

you see this as some sort of logical failure? what about following the truth of the matter wherever it lies?

I did not graduate from high school. I am also not a fan of the public school system as a whole. It is tired, broken and misdirected. But I also think that parents have a larger responsibility here, and there is a huge failure on parents to be a larger part of their child's education.

I don't really have a simple fix for this, I'm just really glad I had great parents who expected success from me.

Functionally, it is the same system that has been in place for more than 70 years, and is not significantly dissimilar to what was happening as much as 150 years ago. Reform is always controlled by lawmakers, who are naturally more concerned with something that looks good and adheres to their own business background than the piles and piles of research regarding adolescence and cognitive psychology that has piled up (largely unused) during the last 60 years. No way a system is going to be anything but broken under those circumstances.

That's the biggest problem with the system as I see it but I think that's kind of what LW is getting at too as that will likely always be a public school issue due to public funding though I think eliminating the Federal DOE and returning all that money and power to the state might make it more effective at least easier to get things changed faster. Federal involvement is what has led to NCLB. There is also the over funding/over staffing of Administration jobs and the lack of materials funding. Teachers should not have to be spending thier own money in order to teach students. Obviously truancy is a problem, unreasonable parents, unaccountable parents and children, overcrowding, lack of attention... the failure to properly reward good teachers. etc. etc. Schools are having to become defacto parents for some children who learn nothing at all from parents.... this dropout problem is only breeding more stupid parents with no hope of ever doing anything or supporting themselves. It's a pretty miserable situation....

this of course is not even bringing up learning disabilities, special needs, behavior disability... etc etc etc.

Except that same antiquated structure and format is prevalant in 95% of private schools, too. My concern over this particular element is what led me to recommend Eisner's works to LW before.



No argument, really, but it doesn't bother me to spend money on it, either.



The very first place I look in terms of dropout rates is the number of failing grades students in the area earn. (Almost) universally in this country, schools do not have the authority to hold back students without parent permission prior to the 9th grade. If you look at areas where dropout rates are high, you'll notice that starting in about the 5th grade you'll see a larger and larger number of students scoring all F's in their classes, and being passed on to the next grade. By the 8th grade, a significant portion of the student body is aware that they don't have to do the work, because they can get their parents to sign them on at the end of the year. I've observed before that I see dozens of students each year fail out of all of their classes, stop doing any work, and start becoming constant disruptions. They're all aware that their parents will pass them on...I've actually seen parents tell kids not to worry, because they'll pass them on no matter what! To date, only one of those students has not been passed on by their parents at the end of the school year.

One.

So these kids go on without having learned anything, and they hit high school and suddenly the whole game changes overnight. So of course they end up as dropouts.

Now you look at areas where there are relatively few failing grades, and these areas always have much lower dropout rates. Obviously, since the school doesn't have the power to hold people back, these areas happen to be places where parents place a heavy emphasis on success at school. The kids are held accountable for their work at home from day one, and they all walk into high school with the basis to learn.

On a side note, which of these areas do you suppose gets punished under NCLB for having low test scores?

Are teacher's unions a force for reform, or do they tend to resist productive change? They seem to be primarily interested in political issues only tangentially related to education as far as their public face goes, but I don't know what actually happens behind the scenes.

so the black kids would rather snort coke and be gun toting pimps as opposed to writing a report on beowulf...whattaya gonna do

Unions tend to focus heavily on things like health insurance and pay for extracurriculars...crap like that. I don't know beyond that, because I've never been impressed with the unions and have thus never joined one. I get left out of those meetings.

The education system - 10%
Teachers - 40%
Society - 0%
Parents - 50%

I cannot place any blame on society for a kid dropping out of school. Everyone knows you basically need an education to have any chance of not living in poverty.

As for immediate environment I place all responsibility on the parents. The parents choose where the kid lives. The parent control the environment the kid grows up in. I know my son is way better off being the "poor" kid in an upper middle class neighbourhood than the affluent kid in the ghetto.