Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm Posts: 25452 Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son Gender: Male
This article is a few months old, but I thought it was really interesting. I had to start thinking about it pretty deeply when a black student of mine told me his mom was moving their family to Bastrop, which is an area very comparable to Victorville, the area mentioned in the article. It definitely seems to be a growing, country wide phemomenon.
Straight outta Compton Feb 14th 2008 | VICTORVILLE From The Economist print edition
You have heard of white flight. Now consider black flight
NEXT month the Burning Bush Baptist Church will hold its first service in a converted Sears department store. When the church was founded, in 1995, it had a congregation of 12. About 750 now attend Sunday services, and more are joining all the time. One reason for the church's growth is the oratorical skill of David Denson, its pastor. Another is that Burning Bush is a mostly black church, and there are a lot more blacks around these days.
Between 2000 and 2006 the black population of Victorville and Apple Valley swelled from 11,900 to 24,500. Two hours' drive from central Los Angeles and surrounded by Joshua trees, it is an improbable black haven. Victorville is a former military town on the edge of the Mojave desert to which Orson Welles exiled the writers of “Citizen Kane” to ensure they would finish the film without distractions.
Yet Victorville is typical. Other sprawling exurbs, such as Palmdale and Lancaster, are also seeing an influx of blacks looking for cheaper housing and safer streets. They reveal a dramatic shift in southern California's population, and provide clues to how America is changing.
Victorville's gain is Los Angeles' loss. Since 1990 the city's black population has dropped by a quarter, from 488,000 to 364,000, even as the overall number of residents rose. The exodus is most noticeable in areas where blacks were once concentrated, such as Compton and Crenshaw. The population of the 35th congressional district, over which the old-fashioned race warrior Maxine Waters holds sway, is now less than one-third black. “It's becoming hard to find black neighbourhoods,” says Dowell Myers, a demographer at the University of Southern California.
It is not easy to find them in Victorville, either. The city has black apartment buildings and the odd black street but no black districts. Nor do the other cities to which blacks are moving. So far, at least, southern California's ghettos seem to be disintegrating, not relocating. Price alone seems to determine where the new arrivals settle. “If you've got the money, you can move wherever you want,” says Eloise Gibson, a retired teacher in Victorville.
A similar drift is evident in northern California, where blacks are leaving the Bay Area for inland spots such as Stockton and Sacramento. Across America blacks are leaving inner-city areas. William Frey, a geographer at the Brookings Institution, a think-tank, calculates that the black population of suburban counties increased by a startling 26.5% between 2000 and 2006. They seem to be moving farther out of the city, and faster, in southern California than anywhere else.
A big reason is immigration. New arrivals from Latin America and Asia have pushed up rents in the metropolis. Until recently they pushed up house prices, too, benefiting the roughly 40% of black householders in south-central Los Angeles who own property. They could afford to move on. Immigrants have also blurred racial lines, producing a kind of confused tolerance. Boundaries that might be stark if there were only two races are a lot harder to police when there are more, especially since the groups are gradually blending.
Most of all, Mr Myers says, high house-prices have forced different groups together. In southern California people will happily trade ethnic homogeneity for an extra bedroom. It helps that most of the places blacks are moving are fast-growing, with little sense of history. Victorville has no traditionally white areas because it has no traditional areas of any kind.
Black churches are the clearest sign of Victorville's changing demography. These do not, however, resemble the community edifices that one finds in more established neighbourhoods. Many meet in shops or living rooms. Mr Denson's attracts the biggest black congregation in the area, he says, largely because he caters to commuters who want to spend precious hours with their families. He can get worshippers in and out in an hour and a half—quick for a black church.
Other changes are more worrying. Ken Jones, a high-school dropout who is learning construction skills, says his family moved from Los Angeles to get him away from gangs. It worked—he describes his life in Victorville as a “retirement”. But he says gangs and crime are becoming entrenched. Between 2000 and 2006 the number of robberies in Victorville increased by 62%. “They bring their lifestyle with them,” says Jim Melton, a youth worker.
At the moment, one of the engines that has driven this migration is stalling. Victorville and Apple Valley are mired in a housing crisis: San Bernardino county had 22,000 foreclosures last year, compared with 7,800 in 1996. Fewer people are moving as house prices fall. Yet this seems to have slowed, not stopped, the black exodus from Los Angeles. The pull of the suburbs is strong.
_________________ Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
I saw this article when this issue was published, and found it interesting. Does this mean that African Americans aren't as disenfranchised as Latin Americans and other, newer immigrants?
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Posts: 7633 Location: Philly Del Fia Gender: Female
Maybe we can hope that they're getting fed up with the inner-city entitlement mentality, pulling themselves up, getting better jobs and moving on from 'da hood' ???
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:51 am Posts: 17078 Location: TX
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Maybe we can hope that they're getting fed up with the inner-city entitlement mentality, pulling themselves up, getting better jobs and moving on from 'da hood' ???
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Posts: 7633 Location: Philly Del Fia Gender: Female
Buffalohed wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Maybe we can hope that they're getting fed up with the inner-city entitlement mentality, pulling themselves up, getting better jobs and moving on from 'da hood' ???
Your tone offends me.
How so? There's 2 kinds of migrations out of these areas. Either A: good people who want to make good lives for themselves and their children and do what is necessary to do so - or B: Groups that take advantage of government mandated low-income housing in safe neighborhoods, that basically create mini ghettos and continue in the same crime/poverty/entitlement cycle that they left.
I prefer A. I've seen both in every color, and am within walking distance of several examples of either.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:51 am Posts: 17078 Location: TX
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Buffalohed wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Maybe we can hope that they're getting fed up with the inner-city entitlement mentality, pulling themselves up, getting better jobs and moving on from 'da hood' ???
Your tone offends me.
How so? There's 2 kinds of migrations out of these areas. Either A: good people who want to make good lives for themselves and their children and do what is necessary to do so - or B: Groups that take advantage of government mandated low-income housing in safe neighborhoods, that basically create mini ghettos and continue in the same crime/poverty/entitlement cycle that they left.
I prefer A. I've seen both in every color, and am within walking distance of several examples of either.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm Posts: 25452 Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son Gender: Male
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Buffalohed wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Maybe we can hope that they're getting fed up with the inner-city entitlement mentality, pulling themselves up, getting better jobs and moving on from 'da hood' ???
Your tone offends me.
How so? There's 2 kinds of migrations out of these areas. Either A: good people who want to make good lives for themselves and their children and do what is necessary to do so - or B: Groups that take advantage of government mandated low-income housing in safe neighborhoods, that basically create mini ghettos and continue in the same crime/poverty/entitlement cycle that they left.
I prefer A. I've seen both in every color, and am within walking distance of several examples of either.
I wouldn't say it's that black and white (no pun intended). Most people want a better life, they're just confused on how to get it or what it should be. Hence the very different types of mentalities in any poor neighborhood. I've had to think about it long and hard, and it's just not that simple. I honestly don't know if just moving out is the best thing to do, because you remove your potential positive influence from the environment. And living in the country gives kids even less stuff to do, so the potential for drug abuse or gang activity is pretty similar, imo. I'm very torn on it.
_________________ Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.
I honestly don't know if just moving out is the best thing to do, because you remove your potential positive influence from the environment. And living in the country gives kids even less stuff to do, so the potential for drug abuse or gang activity is pretty similar, imo. I'm very torn on it.
I disagree. I think you are overestimating the positive influence that a single person/family can have merely from living in the projects. If you're talking about a teacher, religious figure, or other type of community leader, I can see what you mean. But I think a person's first responsibility is to their family, and if they can hope to give their kids a better prospect of being successful, that entails hard work and getting out of the ghetto. I think it is such a destructive and negative environment that a person could probably do more good from the outside.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
Orpheus wrote:
Other changes are more worrying. Ken Jones, a high-school dropout who is learning construction skills, says his family moved from Los Angeles to get him away from gangs. It worked—he describes his life in Victorville as a “retirement”. But he says gangs and crime are becoming entrenched. Between 2000 and 2006 the number of robberies in Victorville increased by 62%. “They bring their lifestyle with them,” says Jim Melton, a youth worker.
This part struck me. When I first read it, I thought "here we go again." But then I got to thinking about how the community will deal with the problems of increased, concentrated crimes, considering that they are largely self-made and self-perpetuated. I'm not suggesting that this is the norm in existing urban centers, but I'm wondering if there will be diversions or fallbacks to blame.
I also thought about whether increased violence and gangs in a newly established, all-black city (versus an inner-city neighborhood) was: (a) inevitable, and (b) if so, whether it was good in terms of fighting it. I don't know the answer to (a), but I think that, with respect to (b), it could be viewed as good in the sense that, because it's concentrated with no invisible boundaries, you have more accountability and more readily identifiable suspects to target (as the article suggests, in neighborhoods like Compton, you have a mix of races which makes it difficult to separate one from the other in terms of identifying responsible parties and fighting crime).
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm Posts: 25452 Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son Gender: Male
I find it worrisome because a more rural environment is rarely a guarantee that young people are going to "settle down." If anything, they have less to do, so things like violence and drug abuse become even more common, especially the latter. Like I said, I see benefits, but I see lots of potential negatives as well.
_________________ Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Posts: 7633 Location: Philly Del Fia Gender: Female
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Orpheus wrote:
Other changes are more worrying. Ken Jones, a high-school dropout who is learning construction skills, says his family moved from Los Angeles to get him away from gangs. It worked—he describes his life in Victorville as a “retirement”. But he says gangs and crime are becoming entrenched. Between 2000 and 2006 the number of robberies in Victorville increased by 62%. “They bring their lifestyle with them,” says Jim Melton, a youth worker.
This part struck me. When I first read it, I thought "here we go again." But then I got to thinking about how the community will deal with the problems of increased, concentrated crimes, considering that they are largely self-made and self-perpetuated. I'm not suggesting that this is the norm in existing urban centers, but I'm wondering if there will be diversions or fallbacks to blame.
I also thought about whether increased violence and gangs in a newly established, all-black city (versus an inner-city neighborhood) was: (a) inevitable, and (b) if so, whether it was good in terms of fighting it. I don't know the answer to (a), but I think that, with respect to (b), it could be viewed as good in the sense that, because it's concentrated with no invisible boundaries, you have more accountability and more readily identifiable suspects to target (as the article suggests, in neighborhoods like Compton, you have a mix of races which makes it difficult to separate one from the other in terms of identifying responsible parties and fighting crime).
I think it's sad, and it is a measure of "bringing the lifestyles with them", and also it boils down to tollerance on the part of the rest of the community. If the Victorville majority rejects the crime lifestyle within itself - it can get through it. If the whole starts making excuses or allowances (ie, Pot's not really a crime, irresponsible sexual behavior, Not 'snitching' when they see something go down, etc), then unfortunately, nothing can be done, and we're probably looking at another Compton in 10-15 years time.
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