I'm confused here, why are the same politicans who worry about C02 emissions complaining about high oil prices? Shouldn't higher prices at the pump have the same effect on demand as a carbon tax on gasoline?

Because people hate high gas prices, and politicians pander to that. Duh.

More to your point, I can see a legit leftist argument made that gas taxes, like other excise taxes, disproportionally hurt the poor.

Yes, taxes on basic inputs do 'hurt the poor disproportionately', but how can one rationalize both advocating a carbon tax to lower demand for gasoline and protesting higher gas prices? Don't environmentalists want gasolines prices to go higher so that consumers demand alternatives?

Should gas be viewed as a basic input? If public transit isn't the most cost effective means of transportation then there's real problems.

Because they're pandering and their constituents are fucking retards.

More on economics vs. climate change:


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Save water, pay extra: Some cry foul
Fulton, Atlanta plan rate increases; others may follow

By D.L. BENNETT
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/16/08

Even utility officials concede it seems unfair to penalize customers for conserving water during the lingering drought.

Yet, Atlanta and Fulton County are asking to do just that. Both have proposed 15 percent rate increases to offset losses to conservation.

And others may well follow if usage stays low across metro Atlanta.

For water utilities the issues is simple: most have millions of dollars in outstanding bonds. A certain amount of revenue is needed to pay off those loans. And less water use means less money coming in.

Atlanta has hundreds of millions of bond debt for its Clean Water Atlanta program — a $4.2 billion overhaul of the city's sewer and water systems.

"The problem is you want people to conserve," said Janet Ward, spokeswoman for the Department of Watershed Management. "It's the right thing to do. But ... operating budgets don't change."

Fulton public works officials will make the same case in early May to the county commission, asking for a 15 percent rate increase to offset losses to conservation.

Angela Parker, public works director, said the request is being made reluctantly, recognizing how unfair it seems.

"If there was any way to avoid it, we would," Parker said. "But we have to meet the terms of our bonds."

So far, Atlanta city council members are blocking Mayor Shirley Franklin's request for a 15 percent conservation penalty. The fee increase would apply to anyone who uses more than about 2,250 gallons of water a month. That would affect most water users since 6,000 gallon is considered standard use.

The request, proposed in February, is languishing in the city council's utilities committee and not likely to move anytime soon.

"I've got it held," said Councilwoman Carla Smith, chairwoman of the utilities committee. "I'm struggling with it.

I don't want to have to pay an extra 15 percent just because I'm conserving. It seems unfair."

Atlanta utility officials know they aren't likely to get the rate increase through a council facing an estimated $65 million budget deficit, which likely will force service cuts and property tax hikes.

"We are preparing our [department's] budget for the next fiscal year on the assumption it will not pass," said Rob Hunter, Watershed director.

Atlanta officials plan in May to propose a series of water rate increases that will help pay for bond debt and regular operations of the huge utility. Ward said if the surcharge remains stymied, the watershed department will boost the upcoming rate increases to cover the lack of the conservation penalty.

Smith recognizes Atlanta must have the money to cover its bond debt no matter how unfair it seems to penalize folks who conserve.

"We don't really have an option to say no," Smith said.

Fulton commissioners will face the same choice next month.

No way! Not government! Government is good. Government is benevolent. We should all give up sovereignty over our lives to this amazing organization. Run my healthcare. Teach my kids. Everything will be just great. I'm sure of it.

You sound like a broken record. Why do you continue to post? We already know what you think.

Thanks.

This is goig to increasing;y become a bigger and bigger issue. The bulk of costs to maintain a water system are a fixed cost regardless of usage. When people are using less this fixed cost must be administered at a higher rate in order to bring the same amount of money. This is going to be very interesting going forward and I think will end with pitting the eco movement versus the poor.

Oh yeah, you guys are definitely unique, patting yourselves on the back with uniform thought processes.

+1

LittleWing...I don't even know why you continue to try but I respect you for it. You know as well as I that the term "thought" and the majority of this board should never collide in the same sentence. Most of them just recite the same "bullshit" they have been fed.

He does have friends!

I'm pretty sure I've probably pooped in his lunch a time or two before. He just has this uncanny knack for common sense.

I brought this idea up a couple of times in the "global warming" thread, but it never really went anywhere. Think about it in the context of the whole 'reduce, recycle, reuse' mantra. The ability to produce is based on the ability to sell. When we reduce, recycle, and reuse, there are less opportunities for producers to sell. In a perfect world this simply leads to more durable, thought more expensive, products. In our modern America, we can't allow that. We can't go backwards in the availability of products to the low end of the income spectrum while availability to high end remains unchanged, because that is 'economic oppression'. The Wal-Mart’s of the world have given unprecedented access to what were formerly luxury goods to even the most modest of earners, but there is only so much Wal-Mart can cut margins before fixed costs take over. It's scary that environmentalism has caused this issue to appear in the pricing of basic necessities such as water and food before it appears in say, plasma TV’s and spinning rims.