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corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 6:44 pm

person, nation, religious group, etc. fill in the blank. is this a decent way of judging the ethicals of certain people, governments and belief systems?

for example:

Quote:

Ask yourself, what are the chances that the Palestinians would show the same restraint in killing Jews if the Jews were a powerless minority living under their occupation and disposed to acts of suicidal terrorism?

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 6:58 pm

another example: imagine a world ruled by sharia law.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

corduroy_blazer wrote:

another example: imagine a world ruled by sharia law.

I've said this before, but "sharia law" doesn't really mean anything. That's like saying a "a world ruled by biblcal law."

Green Habit · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:06 pm

Quote:

Ask yourself, what are the chances that the Palestinians would show the same restraint in killing Jews if the Jews were a powerless minority living under their occupation and disposed to acts of suicidal terrorism?

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 pm

Green Habit wrote:

Quote:

Ask yourself, what are the chances that the Palestinians would show the same restraint in killing Jews if the Jews were a powerless minority living under their occupation and disposed to acts of suicidal terrorism?

i'm currently rereading his book.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 pm

bart d. wrote:

corduroy_blazer wrote:

another example: imagine a world ruled by sharia law.

I've said this before, but "sharia law" doesn't really mean anything. That's like saying a "a world ruled by biblical law."

ok then: imagine a world ruled by the qu'ran or bible.

Green Habit · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:11 pm

corduroy_blazer wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

Quote:

Ask yourself, what are the chances that the Palestinians would show the same restraint in killing Jews if the Jews were a powerless minority living under their occupation and disposed to acts of suicidal terrorism?

i'm currently rereading his book.

Hot damn, that was too easy to guess

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

corduroy_blazer wrote:

person, nation, religious group, etc. fill in the blank. is this a decent way of judging the ethicals of certain people, governments and belief systems?

for example:

Quote:

Ask yourself, what are the chances that the Palestinians would show the same restraint in killing Jews if the Jews were a powerless minority living under their occupation and disposed to acts of suicidal terrorism?

Umm, he does realize that at one point the Jews were a minority in Palestine and that they did engage in acts of terrorism against civilians, right?

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:19 pm

my hero is wrong!

fill me in, bart.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

corduroy_blazer wrote:

my hero is wrong!

fill me in, bart.

Just google "King David Hotel bombing."

SLH916 · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:28 pm

Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi
“The National Military Organization” (Etzel, I.Z.L.)

Armed Jewish underground organization, founded in 1931 by a group of Haganah commanders, who left the Haganah in protest against its defense charter. In April 1937, during the Arab riots, the organization split—about half its members returned to the Haganah. The rest formed a new Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi (abbr. Etzel), which was ideologically linked with the Revisionist Movement and accepted the authority of its leader, Vladimir Jabotinsky.

Etzel rejected the “restraint” policy of the Haganah and carried out armed reprisals against Arabs, which were condemned by the Jewish Agency. Many of its members were arrested by the British authorities; one of them, Shlomo Ben Yosef, was hanged for shooting an Arab bus. After the publication of the White Paper in May 1939, Etzel directed its activities against the British Mandatory autorities.

At the outbreak of World War II, the organization declared a truce, which led to a second split (see Lohamei Herut Yisrael). Etzel members joined the British Army's Palestinian units and later the Jewish Brigade.

From 1943 Etzel was headed by Menachem Begin. In February 1944, Etzel declared war against the British administration. It attacked and blew up government offices, military installations and police stations. The Jewish Agency and the Haganah moved against the Etzel in a campaign nicknamed the Sezon. Etzel joined the Jewish Resistance Movement and after its disintegration in August 1946, Etzel continued attacks on British military and government objectives.

In April 1947, four members of the organization were hanged in Acre prison. In May 1947, Etzel broke into the fortress at Acre and freed 41 prisoners. In July 1947, when 3 other Etzel members were executed, the I.Z.L. hanged two British sergeants.

After the Declaration of Independence, the Etzel high command offered to disband the organization and integrate its members into the army of the new Jewish state. Full integration was achieved in September 1948.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... irgun.html

This is why Moshe Dayan is an amazing figure.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

SLH916 wrote:

This is why Moshe Dayan is an amazing figure.

This helps, too:

Moshe Dayan wrote:

Early yesterday morning Roi was murdered. The quiet of the spring morning dazzled him and he did not see those waiting in ambush for him, at the edge of the furrow.

Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages, where they and their fathers dwelt, into our estate.

It is not among the Arabs in Gaza, but in our own midst that we must seek Roi's blood. How did we shut our eyes and refuse to look squarely at our fate, and see, in all its brutality, the destiny of our generation? Have we forgotten that this group of young people dwelling at Nahal Oz is bearing the heavy gates of Gaza on its shoulders?

Beyond the furrow of the border, a sea of hatred and desire for revenge is swelling, awaiting the day when serenity will dull our path, for the day when we will heed the ambassadors of malevolent hypocrisy who call upon us to lay down our arms.

Roi's blood is crying out to us and only to us from his torn body. Although we have sworn a thousandfold that our blood shall not flow in vain, yesterday again we were tempted, we listened, we believed.

We will make our reckoning with ourselves today; we are a generation that settles the land and without the steel helmet and the canon's maw, we will not be able to plant a tree and build a home. Let us not be deterred from seeing the loathing that is inflaming and filling the lives of the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who live around us. Let us not avert our eyes lest our arms weaken.

This is the fate of our generation. This is our life's choice - to be prepared and armed, strong and determined, lest the sword be stricken from our fist and our lives cut down.

The young Roi who left Tel Aviv to build his home at the gates of Gaza to be a wall for us was blinded by the light in his heart and he did not see the flash of the sword. The yearning for peace deafened his ears and he did not hear the voice of murder waiting in ambush. The gates of Gaza weighed too heavily on his shoulders and overcame him.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

btw, ceeb, this is an example of what I meant when I called Harris a sloppy researcher.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 7:57 pm

is the king david hotel bombing the only attack to mention here?

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

corduroy_blazer wrote:

is the king david hotel bombing the only attack to mention here?

Well, it was the largest terrorist attack in the world until the 80s, and it was completely successful. They got exactly what they wanted from it.

Otherwise, there was plenty of intercene violence between the Arab and Jewish population during the British occupation.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

Also, look at SLH's post. Attacks on public busses? Sound familiar?

SLH916 · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 8:31 pm

Nobility isn't the province of one group or one philosophy. Sometimes one great leader with a vision beyond himself and today can make a difference. Some nations are lucky enough to find such a leader. Would Israel be a country today if there had never been a Ben-Gurion? Would the United States have survived if there had never been a George Washington? It's hard to believe today, but Robert Mugabe was once an idealist. Will Morgan Tsvangirai be immune to the corruption of power?

punkdavid · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 10:05 pm

bart d. wrote:

corduroy_blazer wrote:

is the king david hotel bombing the only attack to mention here?

Well, it was the largest terrorist attack in the world until the 80s, and it was completely successful. They got exactly what they wanted from it.

So teh Arabs are just low-quality terrorists, I guess.

Orpheus · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 10:55 pm

Shaddup Bart, you're making things complicated.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 11:01 pm

Orpheus wrote:

Shaddup Bart, you're making things complicated.

another one of these posts. i absolutely love them!

if the world were under ___'s rule

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