This could be a place to post and discuss ALL the crap these people try to do.

I'm amazed daily at how we are continually lied to by BOTH sides and yet we are still expected to believe these people.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0 ... ave-known/

if they arent lying, are they really politicians?

No we can't really trust them. There are probably a handful of politicians who are doing it for the right reasons. The rest of them are just there to feed their egos and their wallet. They will say and do anything to stay in power. A great example of that is Arlen Specter.

right.

is there anyway to "fix" things? and don't say "put a little ____ on it"

whatever the blueprint, giving them the keys to healthcare is a good start, amirite?

listen, i know threads have lives of their own, but there's threads for policy discussions.

this is for venting about the shit heads, exposing their lies, and contemplating solutions.

thnx.

so it's not okay to point out that there are logical issues with advocating for more government involvement - and the reality that politicians will ultimately be defining the terms and scope of policy initiatives - on the one hand, and maligning the behavior of said politicians on the other? that most of the unsavory behavior of politicians, because it comports with the incentives individual politicians face, is entirely predictable? that these problems are more intractable than cosmetic remedies like term limits or campaign finance reform will ever be able to solve?

my point was for any policy to be left out b/c, whether you're for or against it, we have no choice but to leave it to the politicians. right? so let's leave the obviously flawed system out of the conversation. As you can tell by my posts in this thread, I'm not picking sides or trying to convince anybody of anything. I just wanted to create a place to put ALL the lies the government produces and get a TRUE picture of things.


so then what more could be done? asside from calling them out on their lies as I'm looking to do with this thread.

I don't think there is any way to fix it, the people who would be fixing it are politicians and aren't going to want to lose what they have. The obvious fix would to take the money out politics. If I had the power to, I'd:

1. Make all Congressional, Senate and Presidential elections publicly financed. And make the spending limit low, like $50k for Congress and Senate, $100k for Presidential elections. I think it's embarrassing that to be a viable candidate for President, you need to raise hundreds of millions of dollars.

2. If you were caught spending more than the $50k/100k, you'd be banned from public office for life.

3. Set the salaries for the Senate and Congress at whatever the median salary is in the US.

4. I'd limit the amount of staff members a Senator or Congressperson could have. Something like 5 which would include aides, interns, admins etc. We elect these people to read and write the laws, not their lackeys.

5. I'd set up some kind of panel of non-politicians, which would be in charge of ethics investigations and things like that. I think it's a joke these people basically self police each other.

6. I'd ban all of these junkets these retards go on. They are little more than taxpayer paid vacations.

all good ideas.

i know thodoks just dismissed it, but I think term limits would get the politicians to focus on what needs to be done rather than thinking about their next election and winning votes. I think that would cut down on the lying b/c the politicians wouldn't be trying to hide things in order to maintain their political lives.

tbqh, that's not what you're doing, and if you're as smart as I think you are you know it perfectly well.

you joke and jab about healthcare every chance you get in essentially every thread but the healthcare thread, basically waiting for someone like Ellis to take your bait so you can throw out that little spiel in response. but you know exactly what kind of response you can expect from Ellis, and you know that more than likely he won't challenge your claim of "logical issues" or, for that matter, see the true implications of what you are saying.

hey, whatever. you post however you want. when I first called you out for posting this way I thought it was a fluke and that you were just having a bad week or something, but I know now that this is your style and for the most part I think it's pretty lame.

its not that big a deal, i just wanted to make the distinction with this thread's topic.

there are numerous threads to talk about what politicians should or shouldn't support and why, but i'm pretty sure EVERYBODY agrees that they should be truthful.

so i'm just looking for articles, stories, blogs (that have references not just opinions), video clips, etc. that expose the lies of the powers that be.

of course, and seeing as how thodoks tried to derail it, i understand you want to get it back on topic

so whataya got?

power