22. Which of the following most accurately describes your feelings on the United States education system? (Note: You may select more than one choice.)
A. It is strong and not in need of any drastic changes. 5.7%
B. There should be no public education system; all education should be funded privately. 5.7%
C. The education system is in desperate need of a major overhaul, with special emphasis given to schools in poorer socioeconomic areas. 67.9%
D. The way to improve education for minorities and poor students is by vouchers and school choice programs. 20.7%
On a scale of 1-5, this issue is rated 3.85 for importance.

Male (3.88)
A. 4.4%
B. 6.7%
C. 66.7%
D. 22.2%

Female (3.71)
A. 12.5%
B.
C. 75%
D. 12.5%

Americans (3.97)
A. 4.7%
B. 7.0%
C. 67.4%
D. 20.9%

Non-Americans (3.72)
A. 10%
B.
C. 70%
D. 10%

Wow, the guilt some people feel is pretty amazing, "with special emphasis given to schools in poorer socioeconomic areas. 67.9%".

Can someone please give some justification for this overwhelmingly popular answer? Isn't giving everyone the same scholastic chance enough? Isn't this a form of blatant classism/socio-economic bigotry that basically says poor parents are too stupid/lazy (pick your own favorite derogatory word) to give their kids a fair shot at success?

I was wondering about that, too. Don't public schools suck perfectly well in middle and upper class areas?

Well they absolutely suck more in poorer areas. Statistics showing that are readily available. I wish I hadn't put that part in the answer, however. I chose C, but not because of that line; rather, I believe our public education system sucks, that it needs major improvement, should be well funded, etc. If you improve the whole system it stands to reason that schools would also improve in poorer areas as well, so there wasn't a need for that line to be in there.

I have a feeling most people that chose that answer did so on the basis of the first half of it, seeing as it was the only choice like it.

This is the only one I didn't answer. None of the answers are any good, and the only one that comes close is marred by a stupid as fuck line at the end. Give me a break. Being a liberal and in favor of a better education system doesn't mean you must be in favor of reverse-racism and affirmative action type programs.

By the way, answer C is what Bush chose with NCLB. Worked wonders, don't you think?

I think I voted A even if I don't totally agree with it. I think certain changes could be made but all in all, I think opportunities are there for those who seek them and the people who suffer the most are those who do not value education. I think that problem is more of a societal one and there is only so much the school system can do. At some point, kids have to want to perform better before we can help them.
I'm also sort of drunk so this might not make sense, so happy new year to everyone. I hope 2009 kicks 2008's ass.

No, they're much better. I chose C because I used to do it and it works.

But wait, they have the same standards and funding ratios! They have the same curricula! Are you saying kids in socioeconomically poor areas are stupid?

No, but they have obstacles outside of the school that rich and middle-class kids don't, for the most part.

So it's not their schools that are the problem?

The schools need help in dealing with these issues, so while the schools are not "the problem," they do need extra attention for the kids to succeed. A school is like anything else; different areas and populations are going to present different challenges.

Yeah Orpheus, that's exactly why NCLB is so messed up.

Poor kids need tons of additional help just to get to some arbitrary, mediocre baseline level of education.

Middle/upper class kids are already at this mediocre baseline level, so they don't need anymore money, they can just wallow in mediocrity and never gain anything out of their education while we poor all our efforts into poor neighborhoods that aren't contributing to the productive class of society that is working to make the country and the world a better place.


This is such a ridiculous argument I have trouble wrapping my head around why someone would think it is a good idea. But then I remember that many people think with their hearts before their heads, and it all makes sense. You feel all this compassion for these downtrodden poor kids, and damn you just want everyone to have a fair chance, and you have seen first-hand the devestation of life in a shitty neighborhood and it breaks your heart. Life is so easy for those rich kids, they don't need better schools. These poor kids are suffering here and it's just wrong!

How easy that must be. My heart goes out to a group of people so I advocate for them. I feel terrible for these people and I have a bleeding heart, I will feel better about myself and my country if I know we are doing everything we can to take care of these people.

Don't even bother yourself with reality. Don't worry about the fact that people with high-class educations are the ones who make our country what it is. Don't worry about the fact that the US is falling behind in all areas of education. Don't worry about the brightest kids in the country, the ones who could be curing cancer and saving the environment, but instead are bored to death in school, not being challenged, and receiving a shitty public education. I don't care about them because their parents have money. Save the poor kids!


You know you have an extreme position if you make me feel like LittleWing when trying to respond to it.

I'm pretty sure the only people who think shit like NCLB is a good idea are self-centered minorities, people trying to get their votes, and people who have no perspective and a poor grasp of reality.

Where did I say anything about No Child Left Behind? I think that shit is awful. I want all kids to succeed, including rich and middle class ones. The "extra attention" I'm talking about is stuff like tutoring, counseling, dropout prevention, making sure kids have clothes to wear to school, etc. Rich kids typically don't have the distractions in their home lives that prevent them from succeeding in school. That's what I was talking about, not NCLB.

But NCLB is exactly what you are talking about. NCLB, in essence, means more money to kids struggling in school in every form. That means more money to poor schools, and more money to the "special" programs at wealthy schools. The whole thing is designed to help kids who do poorly and it hurts the kids who do well.

I want all kids to succeed too. We aren't so different in that. The problem is that I believe smart kids, forget rich or poor, should get as much, if not MORE attention and money for their education. While you focus on the poor, where the kids are inevitably going to be behind on average, I focus on the big picture which includes everyone from those falling behind to the gifted.

It's not that I think kids in poor neighborhoods should be abandoned by their education. I just don't believe that they are the most important thing that deserves extra attention.

Rich kids need extra attention just as much as the poor ones. While they may not be dropping out, they still aren't getting a good education. The problem of smart kids not being challenged in school is just as dire as the problem of poor kids dropping out. If you step back and look at the big picture, the smart kids are the ones who are really important to Americas future. If a not-so-bright kid gets a mediocre education, he can still go on and be productive in many different sectors of society, and of course our society should support people like that who don't have the highest end job in the world. But when countries like Japan, Germany, China, Israel, are producing so many bright and extremely well-educated kids, you have to worry about how the smartest American kids are educated. There will always be average people. Nothing says there will always be geniuses or that all geniuses are going to go on to do great things. Focusing our education away from those people is a great way to ensure that those geniuses won't go on to do great things.

How are smart kids in America not getting a good education? I went to public school and I got a great education. Kids dropping out of school is a huge problem in America and creates crime and poverty. I really don't think what you're asserting is happening is happening at all.

Public schools in America are terrible and they are getting worse at all ends of the spectrum.

While many of these social service type of programs may be needed how did you or others ever come up with the idea that schools and teachers should be the providors of these services? IMO schools would be better if teachers actually focused on teaching and laid off the social service work. If the child is not ready to participate at an expected rate in class why not take the child out of the class and provide him/her the help they need then reintegrate the child back into the classroom setting only once they are ready for it. The current social services model of education just drags down the class to the lowest common denominator.
Things like drop-out prevention may best be suited for a big brother/sisiter/mentor type of program. It's seems very intuitive that kids tuning out the teacher teaching class will also tune out teachers and other school sponsored people with their drop-out reduction programs.
I'm all for providing help but let's use the right people for the job. Using teachers as social workers just hurts the education of the all but the worst students.
In most cases that I've seen the only reason tutoring is required is because the child has previously been moved along through the education process without acquiring the skills they should have. Being 9 should not be an automatic ticket into grade 3, it should require an adequate level of retention and understanding of grade 1 and 2 curriculum. Unfortunately this is no longer the case.
Different distractions does not equal no distractions. I've known quite a few messed up kids who came from very middle to upper middle class backgrounds, they are just as deserving of help as the kid of a crack addicted mother.

Let's let teachers focus on being teachers and not social workers and babysitters. Then we'd see a significant improvement in education.