I like working in hypotheticals, especially political ones. I want this thread to go somewhere for all those who wanted Kerry to win, the obvious destination being a somewhat more formidable campaign in 2008. I don't necessarily want your side to win, but, should the right candidate come up, I can see myself going that way... but that's a different thread.

I'm going to start this out with a few rules:

1) Hypotheticals do not involve opinion of the opposite. What I mean by this is that no matter how much you hate Bush, you can't say Kerry would try him for war crimes, or that he gets hit by a bus, or whatever. That's silly, unoriginal, and completely lacking in purpose.

2) Hypotheticals can only be for the first two years of office, no more, no less. That's right, all the Kerry haters can't say he gets impeached or he gets shot in a motorcade... Shit like that.

3) Kerry may have won, but the Republicans still hold control of the House and Senate. Pretty much the situation on the West Wing. An uphill battle for Democrats usually heed more results in foreign policy than domestic policy. Just a hint.

And lastly, because I know the nature of this forum, no nastiness. Don't come in here, as we've all done, and said, "You've lost, get over it." The point of this thread is to give people the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I'm taking this seriously. I mean, if I'm taking it seriously... that's like a clown reciting Neitsczhedhsdaj... er, that guy who said God is dead.

"Buy, why?"

Well, I'm in a group in my local gov. admin. class. Both the people I work with are Kerry supporters. One guy worked his campaign in Miami-Dade. Smart kid. Jittery. But a smart kid. I wasn't surprised, of course. But he posed the question to me, "What would you have done if Kerry had won?" I joked that I'd move to Canada. But then I started thinking, and honestly, my life, short of taxes, wouldn't have changed one bit. And then I thought about the world scene, and I really have little faith in the idea that Kerry was a problem solver and we'd be in a much better position today.

I'll work on my hypothetical later today, but I'll start off by saying no more money would have been given to the Iraq war as a starter. Soldiers would begin a rotation out in April for a four month furlow before Kerry declares war on Iran. As soon as this happens, Iran invades a divided Iraq, and in less than 24 hours, the Shi'ites have maintained a coup over Allawi's government (assuming he wins the Jan. 30 elections, a date Kerry kept in place for fear of wavering previous election comments that he supports a democratic Iraq.)

Kerry spends the next two years whiping shit of the diplomatic fan.

More later.

If Kerry won, I'd be complaining about his incompetency in putting together a coherent line. I don't believe we'd be looking at a war with Iran, though if Seymour Hersh is correct he would have inherited a Bay of Pigs-esque piece of baggage, which wouldn't have been his fault.

He would have wavered over the Jan 30th deadline.

Why?

If Kerry had won he would have started to try to get more unconstitutional gun-grabbing laws passed (that is to say gun "control" laws). Plain and simple.

I agree. I don't know why but I agree. The Iraq thing wouldn't be "solved" so to speak but we would be pulling out. Kerry would have made more of an effort to reach out to former allies in Europe, better diplomatic ties, etc. He would have scaled back the tax cuts and probably would have raised taxes. Kerry wouldn't have placed nutty conservative justices on the Supreme Court, and we could actually worry about fixing the environment, helping the poor (more government programs), probably spending less on defence, rather than worrying about two men kissing, evolution being taught in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses. Then he would have been defeated by McCain or Giuliani in 2008.

But I'm only stating the obvious

I ask this in all sincerity, with no malice intended: Why are there so many people who follow this line of thought? I was speaking with a guy I work with before the elections and he stated something to the effect that "Well, Kerry wants to take away all our guns" Where was this stated in the Kerry/Edwards platform? What lead so many people to think that Kerry wanted to take everyone's guns away? I'm asking just because I don't understand where anyone came up with this notion.

I was going to comment on this also, but I didn't want to derail the thread. I'd love to see a discussion on this in its own thread if someone wants to start it.

--PunkDavid (I can assure you, only the fringe of the Dems want to take away yer gunz)

Well, I believe he was upset with the whole "assault weapons" ban not being picked up again when it expired. And since I was just hypothesizing, I came up with the notion that "hey, he'd probably want something like that put on the books again." Who knows what he would have done. And just because he didn't mention anything about it in his campaign, doesn't mean he wouldn't have done anything about it during his stint in office. Now, back to the topic at hand...

Kerry, of course, was (is) the master of empty rhetoric, he would have made all kinds of promises about getting out of Iraq, a few symbolic withdrawals would have been made, but he'd still have kept 100,000 plus in Iraq for the forseeable future (years?). He really had NO answer for the mess over there (unfortunately, there may not be an 'answer').

I do think he would have been much, much more reticent to pursue further military operations, as it stands now, it's 50-50 (60-40, 70-30?) we invade another country in the next 4 years.

Mandatory Kerry change of mind.

Seriously, I think it's pretty clear to everyone who pays attention to the news that the vote this Sunday will not produce a fully legitimate result.

Candidates have been forced to remain anonymous. Imagine going to the voting booths, that are BTW surrounded by nutjobs with guns, to vote for some guy you haven't heard of, ahead of a whole lot of others you haven't heard of. It just seems sensible to me to not have it this Sunday.

See this is where quoting a song made famous by Barney & Friends:

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a world it would be."

The answer to this is actually quite simple.

HIS VOTING RECORD

*bites tongue in order to abide by requested rules of thread*

...which you have no doubt memorized. Please share your in depth knowledge of Senator Kerry's voting record with the class, either here or in the gun thread.

--PunkDavid

If Kerry had won, he would just be getting started.