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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:44 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.


Just because Israel can blow their shit off the world doesn't mean that their declarations and attacks on Israel aren't as much a part of the problem as everything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:45 am 
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you know what Americans call people in Europe and other countries that oppose Israel? Anti-Semitic.

you know what Americans call anti-Semitic people in America? Good, patriotic Christians.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:48 am 
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Yeah but it's one thing to think that Israel's existence is unjustified on the rational grounds that it pretty much claimed land from other countries, and it's a totally different thing to think that Israel is pure evil and needs to be blown up. There's rational discussions, and then there's starting terrorist organizations and launching missiles into civilian zones.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:49 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.



You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.

When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.

Last question: How many Jews do you think are in this world? How many Arabs? I can assure you, if Israel was "in the wrong" and the international community thought so, it wouldn't take long to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Oh yah. The international community sides with Isreal. Must be because Jews have all the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:51 am 
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"Israel is pure evil" is just some hyperbolic crap that gets passed out on pamphlets at Hamas rallies, you know this, everybody knows this, it has nothing to do with the policy of most Arab countries or what Palestinians want in general. We're forgetting that Jews and Palestinians got along fine up until about 40 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:54 am 
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given2trade wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.



You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.

When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.


There's just one problem with that and that is that they don't want palistinians in their state, and that they want their state to exist when it's essentially stolen land. So they want to live in peace without arabs on stolen land.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:55 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
"Israel is pure evil" is just some hyperbolic crap that gets passed out on pamphlets at Hamas rallies, you know this, everybody knows this, it has nothing to do with the policy of most Arab countries or what Palestinians want in general. We're forgetting that Jews and Palestinians got along fine up until about 40 years ago.



Uh...are we? I was pretty sure there's been fighting about the holy land forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:56 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
"Israel is pure evil" is just some hyperbolic crap that gets passed out on pamphlets at Hamas rallies, you know this, everybody knows this, it has nothing to do with the policy of most Arab countries or what Palestinians want in general. We're forgetting that Jews and Palestinians got along fine up until about 40 years ago.


Huh? They elected terrorists to rule them.

Facts:

1) It is fucking sad how poor Palestine is. I wish Israel and Palestine could live in peace and money could go to Palestine to make them less poor.
2) They should share "the holy land". Fuck religion. Dumb dumb dumb.
3) Again, Israel is not and has NEVER gone on the offensive. They should be faulted for being rich and able to defend themselves? Do you know how small Israel is compared to the rest of the middle east? If it wasn't for the U.S. (and all of their money and weapons) they would have already been wiped out. Hell, Saddam used to pay $25,000 to each suicide bomber's family.

Religion is totally fucked up. However, Israel is THE ONLY country in that region that has elected a "peaceful" leadership and has shown true western values.

9-11 happens, we lose a few thousand people (out of 300 million) and we GO TO WAR. They get bombed regularly and they are supposed to just let it be?

I don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:59 am 
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Winter's Love wrote:
given2trade wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.



You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.

When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.


There's just one problem with that and that is that they don't want palistinians in their state, and that they want their state to exist when it's essentially stolen land. So they want to live in peace without arabs on stolen land.


You are describing SOME people in Israel. A small minority. And they are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Tell me, how many suicide bombers have there been in Gaza? The answer isn't zero because they can "afford" to launch weapons and not blow themselves up. It's zero because they are an advanced culture (yes, with money) and they don't see the need to launch an offensive.

Answer me this: When Hamas stopped their offensive, how many strikes did Israel make?

Spoiler: show
none


Spoiler: show
If Hamas/Arabs never attacked Israel again do you think there would be any more problems?


Spoiler: show
Yes, I know extremists will keep killing people but do you think Israel would ever launch an offensive?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:02 am 
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given2trade wrote:
Winter's Love wrote:
given2trade wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.



You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.

When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.


There's just one problem with that and that is that they don't want palistinians in their state, and that they want their state to exist when it's essentially stolen land. So they want to live in peace without arabs on stolen land.


You are describing SOME people in Israel. A small minority. And they are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Tell me, how many suicide bombers have there been in Gaza? The answer isn't zero because they can "afford" to launch weapons and not blow themselves up. It's zero because they are an advanced culture (yes, with money) and they don't see the need to launch an offensive.

Answer me this: When Hamas stopped their offensive, how many strikes did Israel make?

Spoiler: show
none


Spoiler: show
If Hamas/Arabs never attacked Israel again do you think there would be any more problems?


Spoiler: show
Yes, I know extremists will keep killing people but do you think Israel would every launch an offensive?


But they're still on land that used to belong to other countries until an arbitrary decision. So if the attacks stopped, there would still be problems because the other countries would still want their land back. If Hamas/arabs never wanted that land again, then yeah, there wouldn't be any more problems, but good luck telling them that the holy land isnt important. Turns out revealing that it's all fairy tales doesn't sit well with that side of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:03 am 
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given2trade wrote:
You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.


Refer to my last post.

Quote:
When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.


Quote:
"Responsibility for the high civilian death toll of the war in Lebanon lies squarely with Israeli policies and targeting decisions in the conduct of its military operations," the report said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 02615.html


Quote:
Last question: How many Jews do you think are in this world? How many Arabs? I can assure you, if Israel was "in the wrong" and the international community thought so, it wouldn't take long to tell them to go fuck themselves.


The issue isn't Arabs v. Jews, it is that Israel's security is jeopardized because the state refuses to recognize the rights of a population living within their borders. Until you see it that way there will be no solution, it is a human rights issue and an issue of Democracy. It has far less to do with class or religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:05 am 
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Well yeah, at the root of all this is that both sides see people as objects: "We lost 30 people! MUST GET REFUND!" instead of realizing "Ohhhh right, we're killing people too."

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:08 am 
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Winter's Love wrote:
given2trade wrote:
Winter's Love wrote:
given2trade wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
The Arabs can't compete with Israel economically or militarily, I don't think they're much of an issue.



You're out of your fucking mind. Is the far right wrong in Israel? Yes. Without a doubt. But I don't hear too much about Jews wishing to wipe Arabs off the face of the earth.

When was the last time Israel has gone on and offensive? They have no problem living in peace. Just stop blowing up their citizens.


There's just one problem with that and that is that they don't want palistinians in their state, and that they want their state to exist when it's essentially stolen land. So they want to live in peace without arabs on stolen land.


You are describing SOME people in Israel. A small minority. And they are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Tell me, how many suicide bombers have there been in Gaza? The answer isn't zero because they can "afford" to launch weapons and not blow themselves up. It's zero because they are an advanced culture (yes, with money) and they don't see the need to launch an offensive.

Answer me this: When Hamas stopped their offensive, how many strikes did Israel make?

Spoiler: show
none


Spoiler: show
If Hamas/Arabs never attacked Israel again do you think there would be any more problems?


Spoiler: show
Yes, I know extremists will keep killing people but do you think Israel would every launch an offensive?


But they're still on land that used to belong to other countries until an arbitrary decision. So if the attacks stopped, there would still be problems because the other countries would still want their land back. If Hamas/arabs never wanted that land again, then yeah, there wouldn't be any more problems, but good luck telling them that the holy land isnt important. Turns out revealing that it's all fairy tales doesn't sit well with that side of the world.


Here is the million dollar question:

If Israel gave them the holy land, ie, they shared it, do you think this would stop?

This is rooted in poverty and religion. This will NEVER stop.

There is a better chance in fixing the "religion" than the poverty and neither are going to happen.

By the way, if you think they are killing Jews because they want the holy land...see Iraq (shia/sunni) for how religious people always find an enemy. Part of it is poverty but most of it is just because they are totally fucked up.

I believe if Israel was given ANY land in the middle east...even non holy land...the same shit would be going on right now. What an easy enemy they are...super rich....super small...if you were a leader wouldn't you single them out? Pretty good way to gain power. Do you think Saddam was sending $25,000 because he really gave a shit? He knew it was the popular thing to do.

I'm pretty amazed Israel has lasted this long. It's only because of their Nuclear Weapons and a LITTLE because of U.S. support. I am 100% certain if anyone fucked with Israel bad enough it would be mutually assured destruction. Super.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:12 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
The issue isn't Arabs v. Jews, it is that Israel's security is jeopardized because the state refuses to recognize the rights of a population living within their borders. Until you see it that way there will be no solution, it is a human rights issue and an issue of Democracy. It has far less to do with class or religion.


bwahahhahahaha

Democracy? Why should Israel respect a democracy that elects a terrorist organization? Hitler was elected too.

Why are the Jews at fault for their poverty? They are starving Palastinians? Wow. There are a billion Arabs in the middle east and less than 1% Jews. Man, they aren't at fault for the poverty either?

Why don't we feed Mexico? We share a border, too.

STOP BLOWING PEOPLE UP and there will be peace. Unfortunately, most of the Arab world is piss poor. Peace doesn't work so well when your people are poor. You need an enemy (and religion) to keep it all moving.

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Last edited by given2trade on Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:15 am 
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Winter's Love wrote:
Well yeah, at the root of all this is that both sides see people as objects: "We lost 30 people! MUST GET REFUND!" instead of realizing "Ohhhh right, we're killing people too."



Again:

1) Side blows up innocent people.
2) Other side blows up other people back in much more sophisticated attacks (trying to hit military people but also usually kills innocent people too).

This argument is so absurd. If Canada kept blowing up our buses we would blow them off the face of the Earth. Even more so, if Canada elected as leaders the people who were in charge of blowing up the buses, we would really blow them off the face of the Earth.

I kind of liked when Hamas was elected. Showed how stupid Bush really is with his "Democracy is the best!'. Just because people get elected doesn't make them "good".

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:21 am 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
shades-go-down wrote:
If I could wish for just one success for the Obama Administration, it would be to find a lasting solution to this quagmire.


I certainly hope you have some more modest ambitions for his administration...


Where's the audacity of your hope, friend?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:22 am 
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given2trade wrote:
Huh? They elected terrorists to rule them.

Facts:

1) It is fucking sad how poor Palestine is. I wish Israel and Palestine could live in peace and money could go to Palestine to make them less poor.
2) They should share "the holy land". Fuck religion. Dumb dumb dumb.
3) Again, Israel is not and has NEVER gone on the offensive. They should be faulted for being rich and able to defend themselves? Do you know how small Israel is compared to the rest of the middle east? If it wasn't for the U.S. (and all of their money and weapons) they would have already been wiped out. Hell, Saddam used to pay $25,000 to each suicide bomber's family.

Religion is totally fucked up. However, Israel is THE ONLY country in that region that has elected a "peaceful" leadership and has shown true western values.

9-11 happens, we lose a few thousand people (out of 300 million) and we GO TO WAR. They get bombed regularly and they are supposed to just let it be?

I don't get it.


Israel has a pretty warped view of "Western values." Mostly a loaded term, I'll discuss it in the context you brought up:

They embraced capitalism and some elements of democracy, but they adhere to a foggy line between state and religion.

I don't know how anyone could endorse this latest attack, personally. They have a perfectly rational incentive (poor, angry Arabs living next door that threaten their well-being) to change their military policies, torture, cloak-and-dagger bullshit, their land-grabs, etc. and they don't. It's bizarre.

I understand Hamas are generally perceived to be worthless. Israel is the only country in the region that's stable enough to step and do something about it and they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:25 am 
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given2trade wrote:
Winter's Love wrote:
Well yeah, at the root of all this is that both sides see people as objects: "We lost 30 people! MUST GET REFUND!" instead of realizing "Ohhhh right, we're killing people too."



Again:

1) Side blows up innocent people.
2) Other side blows up other people back in much more sophisticated attacks (trying to hit military people but also usually kills innocent people too).

This argument is so absurd. If Canada kept blowing up our buses we would blow them off the face of the Earth. Even more so, if Canada elected as leaders the people who were in charge of blowing up the buses, we would really blow them off the face of the Earth.

I kind of liked when Hamas was elected. Showed how stupid Bush really is with his "Democracy is the best!'. Just because people get elected doesn't make them "good".


See but Israel has broken cease-fires too friend. They're not just retaliating every time.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 am 
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You got to love the generic bag of responses from the State Department:

"The United States urges Hamas to stop firing rockets from Gaza into Israel."

"We urge them (the Israelis) to avoid civilian casualties."

fucking laughable.

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Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


Last edited by glorified_version on Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel goes apeshit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 am 
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Winter's Love wrote:
given2trade wrote:
Winter's Love wrote:
Well yeah, at the root of all this is that both sides see people as objects: "We lost 30 people! MUST GET REFUND!" instead of realizing "Ohhhh right, we're killing people too."



Again:

1) Side blows up innocent people.
2) Other side blows up other people back in much more sophisticated attacks (trying to hit military people but also usually kills innocent people too).

This argument is so absurd. If Canada kept blowing up our buses we would blow them off the face of the Earth. Even more so, if Canada elected as leaders the people who were in charge of blowing up the buses, we would really blow them off the face of the Earth.

I kind of liked when Hamas was elected. Showed how stupid Bush really is with his "Democracy is the best!'. Just because people get elected doesn't make them "good".


See but Israel has broken cease-fires too friend. They're not just retaliating every time.


Really? Show me ONE time when Israel has blown up a non military target. ONE TIME. They have never gone on the offensive. You are the one defining "cease fire". Show me a link to where they have broken a cease fire? How do you even have a cease fire with a government that is only good at blowing people up? How can Hamas keep it's power with peace? bwahahhahaha

Ehh...this is so dumb. Google "Jews Arabs Israel War" and I'm sure you can read some good arguments why Israel is in the right.

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