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 Post subject: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Holder: US a nation of cowards on racial matters
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090219/ap_ ... older_race

WASHINGTON – Eric Holder, the nation's first black attorney general, said Wednesday the United States was "a nation of cowards" on matters of race, with most Americans avoiding candid discussions of racial issues. In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said.

Race issues continue to be a topic of political discussion, but "we, as average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race."

Holder's speech echoed President Barack Obama's landmark address last year on race relations during the hotly contested Democratic primaries, when the then-candidate urged the nation to break "a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years" and bemoaned the "chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races." Obama delivered the speech to try to distance himself from the angry rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Holder cited that speech by Obama as part of the motivation for his words Wednesday, saying Americans need to overcome an ingrained inhibition against talking about race.

"If we're going to ever make progress, we're going to have to have the guts, we have to have the determination, to be honest with each other. It also means we have to be able to accept criticism where that is justified," Holder told reporters after the speech.

In the speech, Holder urged people of all races to use Black History Month as a chance for honest discussion of racial matters, including issues of health care, education and economic disparities.

Race, Holder said, "is an issue we have never been at ease with and, given our nation's history, this is in some ways understandable... If we are to make progress in this area, we must feel comfortable enough with one another and tolerant enough of each other to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us."

In a country founded by slave owners, race has bedeviled the nation throughout its history, with blacks denied the right to vote just a few decades ago. Obama's triumph last November as well as the nomination of Holder stand as historic achievements of two black Americans.

Holder told hundreds of Justice Department employees gathered for the event that they have a special responsibility to advance racial understanding.

Even when people mix at the workplace or afterwork social events, Holder argued, many Americans in their free time are still segregated inside what he called "race-protected cocoons."

"Saturdays and Sundays, America in the year 2009 does not in some ways differ significantly from the country that existed almost 50 years ago. This is truly sad," said Holder.

Matt Miller, a spokesman for Holder, said later the attorney general used "provocative words to be clear that Americans of all races should stop avoiding the difficult issues of race."

Andrew Grant-Thomas, Deputy Director of the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at Ohio State University, praised Holder's general message but said the wording of the speech may alienate some.

"He's right on the substance, but that's probably not the most politic way of saying it. I'm certain there are people who will hear him and say, 'That's obnoxious,'" he said, adding that what was missing from Holder's speech were specific examples of what painful subjects need to be addressed.

Hilary Shelton, vice president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called the speech "constructively provocative."

"Nobody wants to be considered a coward. We've learned to get along by exclusion and silence. We need to talk about it. People need to feel comfortable saying the wrong things," said Shelton.

Holder is headed to Guantanamo Bay early next week to inspect the terrorist detention facility there. Obama has assigned Holder to lead a special task force aimed at closing the site within a year.

Holder's Justice Department will have to decide which suspects to bring to U.S. courts for trial, which to prosecute through the military justice system, and which to send back to their home countries.


Obviously positive racism is okay.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:20 pm 
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ignorant, yo

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:14 pm 
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you wanna talk on the real about racial issues cuz?

the white man is the devil

the white man genetically comes from the blacc man

do the math


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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:15 pm 
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ODB wrote:
My peoples, don't worry about it
It's all slang from the same gang
I'm blacc out, and I'm blacc in
I'm white out, and I'm white in
SO WHAT?!?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:22 pm 
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godeatgod wrote:
you wanna talk on the real about racial issues cuz?

the white man is the devil

the white man genetically comes from the blacc man

do the math

im glad you made this point. whites aren't the only racists. certain blacks hate whites and hispanics. asian convenience store owners watch the blacks coming into their shops pretty closely
every group has racist tendacies

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:33 pm 
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PeopleMyAge wrote:
godeatgod wrote:
you wanna talk on the real about racial issues cuz?

the white man is the devil

the white man genetically comes from the blacc man

do the math

im glad you made this point. whites aren't the only racists. certain blacks hate whites and hispanics. asian convenience store owners watch the blacks coming into their shops pretty closely
every group has racist tendacies

one must wonder: if blacks had the power, would they have used whites as farm equipment?

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:33 pm 
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if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:39 pm 
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mecca2687 wrote:
if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

what would that make your uncle? divorced?

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:44 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

what would that make your uncle? divorced?

not my uncle, but that is neither here nor there.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:00 pm 
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mecca2687 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

what would that make your uncle? divorced?

not my uncle, but that is neither here nor there.

Yeah, and neither is this whole thread.

When did he say Americans were "racists"? Or were you just paraphrasing Rush paraphrasing someone with hearing aides who listened to Holder's speech?

He said Americans were afraid to confront issues of race, and your framing of the speech seems to be proof positive of that assertion. Well done.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:06 pm 
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How the hell did you get that article in its own window like that? I've never seen that on the board before.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:13 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

what would that make your uncle? divorced?

not my uncle, but that is neither here nor there.

Yeah, and neither is this whole thread.

When did he say Americans were "racists"? Or were you just paraphrasing Rush paraphrasing someone with hearing aides who listened to Holder's speech?

He said Americans were afraid to confront issues of race, and your framing of the speech seems to be proof positive of that assertion. Well done.

i'll give him credit for broaching a difficult subject.

i'll only speak for myself here, but i'm reluctant to engage in frank, honest, and open discussions of race because too few are able to dispassionately and objectively discuss the matter. since i'm white, male, and from the south, pretty much anything i say on the matter that runs contrary to any racial sacred cows or the general consensus is judged by a different standard, regardless of the merit of my claims. the PC crowd has for so long conditioned us on what are and what are not grounds for discussion on race that i'm unwilling to discuss it at all for fear of accidentally treading where i "shouldn't have."

maybe if the climate were a bit more conducive to frank, honest, and open discourse on matters of race, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. if discussions weren't so emotionally charged and opportunistically misconstrued, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. but as it is, i have nothing to gain and everything to lose when discussing matters of race.

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Last edited by thodoks on Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm 
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meatwad wrote:
How the hell did you get that article in its own window like that? I've never seen that on the board before.

the scroll function, mang.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
meatwad wrote:
How the hell did you get that article in its own window like that? I've never seen that on the board before.

the scroll function, mang.

*nigga

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm 
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PeopleMyAge wrote:
godeatgod wrote:
you wanna talk on the real about racial issues cuz?

the white man is the devil

the white man genetically comes from the blacc man

do the math

im glad you made this point. whites aren't the only racists. certain blacks hate whites and hispanics. asian convenience store owners watch the blacks coming into their shops pretty closely
every group has racist tendacies

there's black on black racism too.
Between Africans and Caribbeans in Europe, even between Africans. (the same way there's white on white racism)

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:21 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
i'll give him credit for broaching a difficult subject.

He opened the dialogue, and if I didn't feel that he posted this in a completely dismissive way, I might agree with you. Maybe this is just the cowardly American way of opening dialogue on a sensitive subject.

Quote:
i'll only speak for myself here, but i'm reluctant to engage in frank, honest, and open discussions of race because too few are able to dispassionately and objectively discuss the matter. since i'm white, male, and from the south, pretty much anything i say on the matter that runs contrary to any racial sacred cows or the general consensus is judged by a different standard, regardless of the merit of my claims. the PC crowd has for so long conditioned us on what are and what are not grounds for discussion on race that i'm unwilling to discuss it at all for fear of accidentally treading where i "shouldn't have."

maybe if the climate were a bit more conducive to frank, honest, and open discourse on matters of race, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. if discussions weren't so emotionally charged and opportunistically misconstrued, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. but as it is, i have nothing to gain and everything to lose when discussing matters of race.

Agreed. I think, I hope, that having more prominent black leaders who are not simply "black leaders" will help with this, especially ones like Obama who seem to wish to create the environment for such dialogues. The main thing standing in the way is the people who deny that such racial tension exists or that such dialogue is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:22 pm 
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meatwad wrote:
How the hell did you get that article in its own window like that? I've never seen that on the board before.

Same.


What exactly was the point of Holder's comments? Seemed pretty pointless to me. Anyway, there are reasons we don't talk about race. For one, white people are terrified of it because of the the past 30 years. Why do you think that is? Also, the white people I know have no interest in being involved in the black culture, and as far as I know, black people have no interest in being involved in white culture. It's pretty obvious to me why blacks and whites "separate" on the weekends, and it has nothing to do with hating each other.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
He opened the dialogue, and if I didn't feel that he posted this in a completely dismissive way, I might agree with you. Maybe this is just the cowardly American way of opening dialogue on a sensitive subject.

sorry. the "him" in my initial post was referring to eric holder.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:27 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
mecca2687 wrote:
if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, mike

what would that make your uncle? divorced?

not my uncle, but that is neither here nor there.

Yeah, and neither is this whole thread.

When did he say Americans were "racists"? Or were you just paraphrasing Rush paraphrasing someone with hearing aides who listened to Holder's speech?

He said Americans were afraid to confront issues of race, and your framing of the speech seems to be proof positive of that assertion. Well done.

i'll give him credit for broaching a difficult subject.

i'll only speak for myself here, but i'm reluctant to engage in frank, honest, and open discussions of race because too few are able to dispassionately and objectively discuss the matter. since i'm white, male, and from the south, pretty much anything i say on the matter that runs contrary to any racial sacred cows or the general consensus is judged by a different standard, regardless of the merit of my claims. the PC crowd has for so long conditioned us on what are and what are not grounds for discussion on race that i'm unwilling to discuss it at all for fear of accidentally treading where i "shouldn't have."

maybe if the climate were a bit more conducive to frank, honest, and open discourse on matters of race, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. if discussions weren't so emotionally charged and opportunistically misconstrued, i wouldn't be so reluctant to engage in a dialogue. but as it is, i have nothing to gain and everything to lose when discussing matters of race.

Exactly. Look at the "Does race matter" thread. All it takes is me mentioning facts or statistics and I'm labelled as a racist. According to the standards in this country, being a racist has nothing to do with hating a group of people, it has only to do with what you are or are not willing to say. Why bring up race at all when you have a good chance of being labelled a racist just for referring to blacks as a group separate from whites?

And this thread actually ties in exactly with what I was saying in the Israeli thread. We try so hard in this country to pretend that everyone is equal, and it is so terrible and racist to say people are different, that we end up in the situation we are in now and people are too afraid to talk about anything because of the real personal and professional consequences involved in doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: AG says America is racist
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:30 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
Agreed. I think, I hope, that having more prominent black leaders who are not simply "black leaders" will help with this, especially ones like Obama who seem to wish to create the environment for such dialogues. The main thing standing in the way is the people who deny that such racial tension exists or that such dialogue is necessary.

To me, these people are the same ones who refuse to recognize that there is a difference between black people and white people.

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