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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:06 am 
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Bammer wrote:
As a Realtor I say own, of course. But you have to purchase wisely and do so for the right reasons. It's not for everybody...especially (in the current market) if you plan to sell/move again any time soon. But if it's a long-term investment and you are responsible about it, then do it.

Without reading this whole thread I would like to remind people that (at least in WA) the interest you pay on your mortgage can be used as a tax writeoff. That's huge.


And the real estate taxes among others. The Gov't has been encouraging tax payers to buy a house for years. It worked, nice job. :nice: :shake:

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Bammer wrote:
the interest you pay on your mortgage can be used as a tax writeoff. That's huge.

Pay $3 in interest to save $1 in taxes? No thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:03 pm 
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lol @ as a real estate agent i say own regardless of the market environment

that's like saying as a stock broker i encourage people to buy stocks regardless of the market environment

they would never do that! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Does a house necessarily have to be looked at as an investment? I don't know how butthurt I'd be losing a few ten thousand dollars owning a house in a bad real estate environment as it loses value. I can understand why people don't want to own, the hassles associated with it, and the money you lose on interest. But while Thodoks doesn't want to have the burden of fixing a leaky faucet and having someone else take care of it, I don't want people that I don't know fixing my shit. Even as a renter I fix as much stuff as I possibly can so I know it's working right. I want a yard to take care of. I want to keep a grill less than 15 ft from an apartment. I want a garden to plant shit in. I want my own place to do some landscaping. I want to be able to own a boat and have a place to store crap. All of these things, to me anyway, have great value.

Currently I'm paying $750 a month to rent a nice 1200 sq. ft. two bedroom apartment with a balcony, fire place, central air, pretty much everything you can score in upstate NY. I can roughly own a 1600 square foot two bedroom house on a small lake, with water access for that price. And that includes PMI if needs be. To me, that's worth it.

If I want to paint the walls I can. If I want new carpet, I can do it. The property is mine, with no attachments, no regulations, nobody telling that I can't have a boat, that I can't fix anything, that I can't plant shit, etc. I guess I don't understand the appeal of being couped in an apartment complex for their entire life.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:08 pm 
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You can rent homes, too.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:27 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
You can rent homes, too.


You can, but that's nearly as big of a pain as renting an apartment. Find me someone renting a home that'll let you build a deck, tear up the carpets, and plant a garden...

Plus, around here renting is almost always more expensive than a mortgage on the same house.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Renting vs. owning depends on too many variables to be answered yes or no. But i'll say one thing, with uncertaintly ahead, its best to have as many options available to you as possible. I'd rather the storm come through when i have nothing than when i have something to lose.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:43 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
Renting vs. owning depends on too many variables to be answered yes or no. But i'll say one thing, with uncertaintly ahead, its best to have as many options available to you as possible. I'd rather the storm come through when i have nothing than when i have something to lose.


Pretty much sums it all up in a short paragraph. Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Paying $3 to save $1 in taxes - you have to take that in context. Like I said, it's not for everybody...it has to make sense for you. OK so you're paying $X/mo in interest...great, but depending on your down payment and equity position, you're also paying down the principal on your investment. Over time you would assume the value increases, as does your equity, and yeah you're paying interest along the way...but how does that calculate out compared to tossing away $X/month on rent? Rent money is out the door, never to be seen again. My argument is that at least with the interest dollars, you're saving on taxes. Every situation is unique.

And I certainly do NOT recommend that "everyone should buy regardless of the market." Feel free to put more words in my mouth though if that's what you like to do.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:23 am 
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Coming from a place where property taxes alone will take you down about a grand/month, it is difficult for me to see home ownership as much of a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 am 
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LittleWing wrote:
Does a house necessarily have to be looked at as an investment?



thats kind of my thought too. To me, owning a home was always about having a place of my own. A place for my kids to grow up in that was entirely under my control. The walls could be whatever color i wanted, where i didn't need to worry about a security deposit, or get whatever pet i wanted without asking a landlord. the "investment" was always secondary for me.


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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Does a house necessarily have to be looked at as an investment?



thats kind of my thought too. To me, owning a home was always about having a place of my own. A place for my kids to grow up in that was entirely under my control. The walls could be whatever color i wanted, where i didn't need to worry about a security deposit, or get whatever pet i wanted without asking a landlord. the "investment" was always secondary for me.


Me too. If the place and piece of mind of having my place is worth X dollars per month, then it's worth it in my book. Even if the place loses a few ten thousand in value over the life of owning the property it'd still be wroth it so long as I'm happy with the property, my neighbors, and the schools.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:46 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Does a house necessarily have to be looked at as an investment?



thats kind of my thought too. To me, owning a home was always about having a place of my own. A place for my kids to grow up in that was entirely under my control. The walls could be whatever color i wanted, where i didn't need to worry about a security deposit, or get whatever pet i wanted without asking a landlord. the "investment" was always secondary for me.


Me too. If the place and piece of mind of having my place is worth X dollars per month, then it's worth it in my book. Even if the place loses a few ten thousand in value over the life of owning the property it'd still be wroth it so long as I'm happy with the property, my neighbors, and the schools.


And you have a stable job situation....

I don't think anyone is arguing that home ownership should only be considered as an investment, but regarldess, a home will probably be the biggest investment in your life no matter how you look at it or how you dress it up, and not looking at it that way is partly the reason why we have these economic issues today. Whats the point of buying if the chances of loosing it are uncertain at best considering these times?

Not saying you're saying this but its amazing how many people think they're entitled to own a home. It's not that all surprising considering it's the "American Dream."

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:56 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:

I don't think anyone is arguing that home ownership should only be considered as an investment, but regarldess, a home will probably be the biggest investment in your life no matter how you look at it or how you dress it up, and not looking at it that way is partly the reason why we have these economic issues today. Whats the point of buying if the chances of loosing it are uncertain at best considering these times?

Not saying you're saying this but its amazing how many people think they're entitled to own a home. It's not that all surprising considering it's the "American Dream."



You and I see things totally opposite. I think if people just looked at homes as a place to live, not an investment, we wouldnt be anywhere near the situation we are in now. Instead, people were selling at artificially high prices to maximize their investment. Spending large sums of money they didnt have to do things just to "increase value", etc. Basically the investment value of homes turned into the driving force of a lot of people. Equity Loans turned into "Home improvement" loans... and not because your wife wanted a bigger tub- but because some real estate agent, or newspaper home expert told people that finishing their basement, or a larger garage would make their home more "valuable"..
and when that market finally corrected, all those new cabinets, tile, and patios turned into negative equity.


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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:02 pm 
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I just refi-ed my mortgage, so obviously I am in the "pro-own" category, but I see the argument Skitch is making too. I bought only hen I got a job on contract that had 5+ years left on it. When I have school aged kids, I plan on buying again, mostly to get away from black people and into a better school zone. I would be renting if I didn't have the long term career confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:08 pm 
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I currently own, but kinda wish I didn't. I'm trying to sell the house now so I can move to Portland, OR. I can't leave Missouri until I sell the house. I bought the house with a VA loan. Part of my agreement with the VA is that I can't rent the house out...so there goes that option. The market in my area hasn't really affected the prices that much, but the speed at which a house can be sold has drastically slowed.

I never intended to stay forever, but I got such a good deal on the house I couldn't pass it up. Now the good deal is keeping me here for a bit longer than I wanted.

Just another thing to think about before buying... Not nearly as easy to pack up and leave when owning

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:15 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
so obviously I am in the "pro-own" category, but I see the argument Skitch is making too.



i am pro-own as well... but as a home- not an investment.


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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Both skitch and pnj are right. The "home as a stock" to buy low and sell high idea was a major issue that distorted the market, and the "home ownership society" concept and the government policies it encouraged also distorted the market. However, I would argue the former did far more to cause the crisis itself, but the latter has made it more difficult to get out.

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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:42 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
mostly to get away from black people and into a better school zone


:(


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 Post subject: Re: To rent or to own? That is the question.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:01 am 
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A realtor friend of mine posted this link on facebook:

http://speakingofrealestate.blogs.realtor.org/2010/09/16/10-reasons-to-buy-a-home/

Quote:
10 Reasons to Buy a Home
September 16, 2010 by Robert Freedman · 2 Comments
Filed under: Breaking News

By Robert Freedman, senior editor, REALTOR® Magazine

A piece in the Wall Street Journal yesterday took issue with a recent Time cover story calling into question some of our most cherished beliefs about homeownership. Much of what the Journal talks about isn’t new. In fact, it recites benefits of homeownership that you already know better than anyone. But in pulling them together in the way it does, it makes you realize just how compelling homeownership is from just about every standpoint. If you haven’t seen the piece, by Brett Arends, here’s a thumbnail sketch of its 10 points:


Why is now a great time to buy?

1. You can get a good deal. Prices are down 30 percent on average. They’re at a level that makes sense for people’s income.

2. Mortgages are cheap. At 4.3 percent on average for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage, your costs to own are down by a fifth from two years ago.

3. You can save on taxes. When you add up the deductions for mortgage interest and others, the cost of owning can drop below renting for a comparable place.

4. It’ll be yours. The one benefit to owning that never changes is that you can paint your walls orange if you want (generally speaking; there might be some community restrictions). How many landlords will let you do that?

5. You can get a better home. In some markets, it’s simply the case that the nicest places are for-sale homes and condos.

6. It offers some inflation protection. Historically, appreciation over time outpaces inflation.

7. It’s risk capital. If the economy picks up, you stand to benefit from that, even if you’re goal is just to have a nice place to live.

8. It’s forced savings. A part of your payment each month goes to equity.

9. There is a lot to choose from. There are some 4 million homes available today, about a year’s supply. Now’s the time to find something you like and get it.

10. Sooner or later the market will clear. The U.S. is expected to grow by another 100 million people in 40 years. They have to live somewhere. Demand will eventually outpace supply.

Read the story yourself.

[Editor's note: To learn about the issues being raised in the media about homeownership, buying today and what the facts are, REALTOR® Magazine is hosting a webinar Tuesday, Sept. 28, at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, with NAR Chief Economist Lawrence Yun and housing policy analyst Howard Glaser of the Glaser Group. Registration link.]


Yeah, that guy's not talking his book or anything. :lol:

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