Now for something a little different. With one notable exception, this article pretty much nailed a lot of what I was looking for in a house.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/no-mc ... nials.html

Here's what Generation Y doesn't want: formal living rooms, soaker bathtubs, dependence on a car.

In other words, they don't want their parents' homes.

Much of this week's National Association of Home Builders conference has dwelled on the housing needs of an aging baby boomer population. But their children actually represent an even larger demographic. An estimated 80 million people comprise the category known as "Gen Y," youth born roughly between 1980 and the early 2000s. The boomers, meanwhile, boast 76 million.

Gen Y housing preferences are the subject of at least two panels at this week's convention. A key finding: They want to walk everywhere. Surveys show that 13% carpool to work, while 7% walk, said Melina Duggal, a principal with Orlando-based real estate adviser RCLCO. A whopping 88% want to be in an urban setting, but since cities themselves can be so expensive, places with shopping, dining and transit such as Bethesda and Arlington in the Washington suburbs will do just fine.

"One-third are willing to pay for the ability to walk," Ms. Duggal said. "They don't want to be in a cookie-cutter type of development. ...The suburbs will need to evolve to be attractive to Gen Y."

Outdoor space is important-but please, just a place to put the grill and have some friends over. Lawn-mowing not desired. Amenities such as fitness centers, game rooms and party rooms are important ("Is the room big enough to host a baby shower?" a millennial might think). "Outdoor fire pits," suggested Tony Weremeichik of Canin Associates, an architecture firm in Orlando. "Consider designing outdoor spaces as if they were living rooms."

Smaller rooms and fewer cavernous hallways to get everywhere, a bigger shower stall and skip the tub, he said. Oh, but don't forget space in front of the television for the Wii, and space to eat meals while glued to the tube, because dinner parties and families gathered around the table are so last-Gen. And maybe a little nook in the laundry room for Rover's bed?

In his presentation, KTGY Group residential designer David Senden showed slide after slide of dwellings that looked like a cross between a hotel lobby and the set of "Melrose Place."

He christened the subset of the generation delaying marriage and family as "dawdlers."

"A house in the suburbs is not for them," Mr. Senden said. "At least not yet."

Places to congregate are more important than a big apartment, he cautioned. He showed one layout of a studio apartment-350 square feet, as big as Mom and Dad's Great Room. Common space has migrated to "club rooms," he said, where Gen-Y residents can host meals and hang out before heading to a common movie-screening room or rooftop swimming pool that they share with the building's other tenants.

The Great Recession and its effects on young people's wages will affect how much home they can buy or rent for years to come.

"Not too many college grads can afford a lot of space in the city," he said. "Think lots of amenities with little tiny units-and a lot of them to keep (fees) down. ...The things these places are doing is constantly coordinating activities. The residents get to know each other and it makes for a much livelier and friendlier environment."

I was thinking about this thread the other day because the topic of home-buying has popped up in my marriage once again.

Hmmm, sounds like she's not a keeper.

thodoks/given2trade post

man, i take like 5-6 baths a week. fuck that article. though, i was born in 1979 so i'm pretty much in between the "gens".

I think it's important to have a formal living room, with at least one couch, a couple of chairs, a coffee table, and some classy wall hangings. I agree with the thing about cookie cutter houses, though.

I think where this article misses the mark is in its assumption that Gen-Y'ers will never have any kids whatsoever.

I was born in 1980 so I'm right on that cusp as well. I had a separate jacuzzi-style tub in my previous house and never used it for anything other than storage.
For typical social gatherings that I've been to/hosted, I find the smaller rooms nicer to make it easier for smaller groups to converse, or play games, watch the game, etc.
Yeah, I really agree with that as well, but I'd like to hope that some of the trends it cited would be permanent.

So basically, they want dorms.

Even in the pre-itchy-asshole days?

doesn't itch much anymore, even if the roids are still there. oddly enough.

but yah, i love baths. wine, music, sometimes a tv show on the computer. relaxation.

Is there supposedly an ideal percentage of monthly income that a person should realistically aim to be paying on rent/mortgage?

Supposedly, between 25 and 33% of your net income should go to shelter. Supposedly, the price of your target home should be no more than about three times your combined gross household income.

Supposedly.

Yeah, that's what my wife and I were told when we bought our house. They said it used to be a max of 40% of gross income (which is ridiculous), but nowadays the target is 30%. Depending on your credit, they may give you more, but obviously they'd like less. My wife and I bought a home a little bit less than 2.5x our gross yearly income, and the mortgage is only 21% of our gross monthly income. I really couldn't imagine going much higher than that, especially up here in CT. Oil kills you in the winter, and now with a kid, forget it (daycare is outrageous). We have no credit card debt or car payments and it's still tough.

Of gross, not net? Just did the math, there's not a chance I would spend that much a month on my house. Right now we're renting for under 25% of our monthly net income. Also, no chance I would buy a house that is thrice our gross income.

Interesting.

I just brought it up out of curiosity. If my job situation proves to be secure there's a good chance we'll start looking at the possibility of buying somewhere in the next two years. But we're at least a year away from even considering it.

Again, when you "buy" a house, you're not actually buying the house. You're buying a payment and still effectively renting a house.

Well, unless you buy the whole house in cash

What do you think would happen if, instead of customarily focusing on just the price of a house, buyers were instead customarily focused on the full amortized cost of the purchase?

I know you're ardently in the pro-rent category, so let me bounce a couple ideas off you.

Btw what I'm going to present to you isn't particularly hypothetical; it's basically the situation I would be in if, and it's still a long way away and very much an if, we were to seriously consider buying.

Let's say that we can make a 20%+ down payment with relative ease, meaning the savings account will still be healthy, about 18-24 months worth of bills money if the world suddenly ended. Mortgage+property taxes+ homeowners ins= about the same as we're renting for right now. Same ballpark, meaning within 10-15%. The house being "bought" would be in a better neighborhood, nicer house, etc. A definite step up. Obviously you have all the pluses and minuses that go with "ownership" that have been discussed plenty already in this thread.
Job situation=as relatively secure as can be hoped for in 2012/13. Mortgage payments+taxes+ins = 20-25% of monthly net income. Not sure why gross would really matter at all to tell you the truth.

I see the drawbacks as: lack of flexibility. If things do go to crap it's a lot harder to unload a house in a bad market than to move from one rental to another. Market worsens. 5 years from purchase the house may be worth less than what was paid for it. Pretty tough spot to want to move and be under water.

I'm sure you'll tell me others and that's what I want to hear. Bottom line: if you accept that it isn't an investment but still have the desire to put roots down and have a home that you can do what you want with, and are seemingly in what is traditionally considered to be a good position to be in to make a purchase, do you think that person/couple would still be making a mistake. Why or why not?

You have 15 minutes. Turn your papers over and begin.

Do you live in a recourse state?

How financially secure is your employer?

What other debt do you have?

What else could/would you spend your down payment on?

Isn't that the primary driver for refis? To get lower rates to lower the total cost?