of course, but it's impossible for you to be anywhere near objective in a situation like that.

You say objectively measure but there's no such thing. What are you measuring against? An ever changing set of morals? How is that objective? Who's set of morals do you use to measure against?

Your object measure is just the bullshit we make up to feel good or bad about actions.

But there is my point. In my life, I only care how stranger's actions effect me. I don't care how they arrive at those decisions.

If you don't rob me because of:

1) God
2) Law
3) It's wrong

I don't give a shit. Just don't fucking rob me.

Of course I would rather date a girl whose intent is of "a more positive" nature.

well, yes, there is a difference between personal morality and, say, political or military morality. the latter is in fact a whole different engagement of ethical study because humans tend to give some leeway to politicians and war leaders.

every decision we make, given the information and incentives we face, is an exercise in maximizing utility and furthering our respective interests.

I believe intent and morality absolutely matter on a personal basis.

I want to be friends with someone who doesn't rob people because it's wrong not because they are afraid of the police.

Ok, so you agree I'm right.

Locker Up!

What does that have to do with people who care for others before their own comfort?

doesn't that completely contradict what you just said before when we were talking about your son being dead? your friend doesn't rob people; it doesn't matter why or how, he doesn't. game over.

No, in choosing who I want to associate with, I care about people's intentions. With the rest of the world, all I care about is their actions.

I don't want the guy down the street robbing me. Period.

I don't want my friend robbing anyone and I don't want him robbing anyone for the right reason.

i'd like to see this answered. i mean, are all mothers just interested in having babies to play with?

so intentions only matter when you want them to matter. noted.

What's more important, someone's intent or their actions?

When I was younger, I always believed "it's the thought that counts." As I've gotten older, it seems like actions are much more important than someone's intent. Let me give you an example:

Does it matter why someone decides to donate money to charity, as long as the money gets donated? Does it matter why someone volunteers to read to children, as long as the kids have someone to read to them? What if the person is only going because there is a cute girl and he wants to get laid. He doesn't care at all about the children, but he still reads to them and treats them well every time he shows up. Is he any better than the person who doesn't go at all?

I am the belief that there are no altruistic deeds. Everything we do is done for selfish reasons. This sounds much more cynical than it really is. When someone does a good deed, they do it because it makes them feel good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Should we care why someone does something or should we just judge them by the effect it has on others?

Intentions only matter when I am personally involved with another human being. Again, why do I care why the guy down the street doesn't rob me? Why does it effect me? As long as he doesn't rob me.

you've changed so much since you got old.

usually people care about intentions in general because they care about living in a worthwhile society. that is, morals are constructed by society, and thus, we are all involved in the process of creating them.

actions can only be objectively measured when considering the intent and surrounding circumstances. like i said, 100 civilians dead seems more acceptable if the 100 civilians dead were unfortunate collateral damage killed by cruise missiles taking out a terrorist afghani bomb-making factory as compared to 100 civilians dead due to a suicide bombing. clearly, we deplore the suicide bomber, while giving our politicians and war chiefs some leeway. and why? because of their intentions.