Nobody's doing that. We're pointing out the logical deficiencies in the thought process that goes "Guns are bad, we should get rid of them."

But if you want the other side of the gun debate, this diary was a lot of fun.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... id-as-hell.

This is a poor attitude. Get some training with your guns if this is how you feel. I for one, have little doubt that if anybody entered my home that there would be no shoot out. Regardless of whether they had a gun or not. Three bullets would travel one direction. End of story. Just get some more training. Learn some tactics. Become proficient with your weapon. And have a plan for what you'd actually do if the situation arose.

If you are properly trained on how to handle the situation, then you're going to be more prepared than 95% of burglars for an exchange of fire. Furthermore, you know the lay of the land and the layout of your house better. You know ambush points. You know where the lights are. You know what to do.

that wasn't my point. like broken_iris said, gun ownership is a personal decision. i certainly respect your decision to not own a gun, and i wouldn't by force of government edict mandate that you do. but i would expect the same courtesy. that is, you should respect my decision to own a gun, even if you disagree with it. and people who choose not to own guns shouldn't by force of government edict mandate that i also not own one.

my problem is not with non-gun owners. it's with non-gun owners who, through the political process, seek to forcibly remove the option of anyone else owning a gun.

This; hence, this:

If you are fast enough to be awoken by a sound and in the dark find the key....get the gun box, open it, grab the gun(let's say it is already loaded) and get yourself in position to fire the gun and you know not be mistaken and shoot a family member who was getting a drink from the fridge than yes a key would work.




They busted through his bedroom door and shot him....I guess he could have done a roll and fired back Lethal Weapon style....

i agree with this wholeheartedly.

Yeah, just be more like LW, who is a veritable fucking commando.

Obviously it was oversimplification, but the point is, with proper measures, you can greatly reduce the chances of an accident to near nil. You don't even have to lock up the gun; just keep it unloaded, keep the clip on your person, and teach the kids that there will absolutely be hell to pay if they mess with the gun (and take them shooting just to show them how dangerous it really is, and get all the curiosity out of their system). I'd bet if you look up the statistics, most of the people whose children were involved in gun accidents were irresponsible idiots who thought it'd be cool to have a loaded firearm in their drawer.

If you're stupid enough to break into a house with someone in it, you deserve to get shot and possibly die.

So, burglars just need to be smart enough to avoid occupied houses, rather than avoid burgling alltogether?

Agreed....I can just envision a number of scenerios where you won't have time to get to a gun if it is properly locked up.

I guess you would have to compare the stats of someone fending off and intruder with a gun or exchanging gun fire with an burgler versus accidental gun deaths and make your desicion based on that. Personally I don't know anyone who got into a gun battle with buglers.

You're right. I should have phrased it as 'I gather that most of you believe in the right to defend your family and loved ones in whatever way possible, even if it means killing an intruder.'


Usually burglars try to escape when they are discovered, not attack someone. Only a fucked up person would break into a house with the idea of hurting someone. But it could be this is something that happens a lot in the US.


So you think owning a gun is more of a risk than not owning one?


But how do you decide who is untrustworthy and who isn't? If anyone in the US has a right to own a gun, you create the possibility that those guns will be used for other ways than to defend yourself. The examples are numerous. Are you willing to take that chance?

I've never owned a gun, and don't plan to, however...
...in America, at this time, we are forced to deal with certain realities:


*puts on crazed right-winger hat

The ultimate effect of a gun ban in America would be that, primarily, two groups of people would have guns: Criminals, and the government.
Neither group deserves such a privilege, in my estimation.

*takes off crazed right-winger hat

Also, for those of you who are unfamiliar with all of the nooks and crannys of American culture, a gun ban would almost certainly cause armed insurrection.

That's what I said, isn't it?


The alternative is to give the government the monopoly on the use of force, and that is what I think most Americans object to. That's why our ancestors left Europe.

Let's look at our two choices:

a) We let everybody have a right to own a gun. Trustworthy and untrustworthy people have guns.
b) We don't give anybody the right to own a gun. Now, someone who owns a gun is, by definition, untrustworthy.

You wouldn't use this argument for other ills that afflict society, but somehow the right to possess a gun is so sacrosanct and ingrained in the American psyche, that people are prepared to overlook the logical fallacy inherent in it.



I used to believe this too until I had to confront the reality of this assumption as part of my work. This might be true of domestic murders where the murderer just loses it, but it isn't true of drive-bys and robberies. If guns weren't as readily available as they are right now, the number of deaths associated with gang violence and robberies would almost without doubt tumble.





Mate can I write a book about you?

Actually, I would (and do) use that argument for the other ills that afflict society.



I've seen statistics that support both sides. But I would much rather address the causes of violent crime rather than its symptoms. I'm sure deaths might be lower, but as thodoks pointed out, I'm not sure violent crime incidence would decrease (and would likely increase).

There's always the chance a house is occupied by one of these: