Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1657 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 ... 83  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Spacegirl
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 40914
a disgruntled, fired employee is all we need.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 15767
Location: Vail, CO
Gender: Male
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/1 ... ide_a.html

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

There have been some contrarian studies about the decrease in gun violence in Australia, including a 2006 paper that argued the decline in gun-related homicides after Port Arthur was simply a continuation of trends already under way. But that paper’s methodology has been discredited, which is not surprising when you consider that its authors were affiliated with pro-gun groups. Other reports from gun advocates have similarly cherry-picked anecdotal evidence or presented outright fabrications in attempting to make the case that Australia’s more-restrictive laws didn’t work. Those are effectively refuted by findings from peer-reviewed papers, which note that the rate of decrease in gun-related deaths more than doubled following the gun buyback, and that states with the highest buyback rates showed the steepest declines. A 2011 Harvard summary of the research concluded that, at the time the laws were passed in 1996, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”

Whether the same policies would work as well in the United States—or whether similar legislation would have any chance of being passed here in the first place—is an open question. Howard, the conservative leader behind the Australian reforms, wrote an op-ed in an Australian paper after visiting the United States in the wake of the Aurora shootings. He came away convinced that America needed to change its gun laws, but lamented its lack of will to do so.

There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back.

That’s certainly how things looked after the Aurora shooting. But after Sandy Hook, with the nation shocked and groping for answers once again, I wonder if Americans are still so sure that we have nothing to learn from Australia’s example.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:41 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am
Posts: 7189
Location: CA
But seriously folks, you're going to have to either completely ignore or ammend the constitution to get the sort of changes that some of you desire. As inconvenient as that might be, thats pretty much how it is.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:37 am
Posts: 2465
Location: A dark place
simple schoolboy wrote:
But seriously folks, you're going to have to either completely ignore or ammend the constitution to get the sort of changes that some of you desire. As inconvenient as that might be, thats pretty much how it is.

I'm fine with that. The Constitution should evolve.

_________________
Do you like crappy amateur photography? Check out my photo blog here.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 am 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 15767
Location: Vail, CO
Gender: Male
turned2black wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
But seriously folks, you're going to have to either completely ignore or ammend the constitution to get the sort of changes that some of you desire. As inconvenient as that might be, thats pretty much how it is.

I'm fine with that. The Constitution should evolve.



I believe it was written so that it could evolve, yea?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:09 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 10694
px wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Yeah, there's nothing more amusing than people who know absolutely nothing about guns, trying to figure out ways to limit their use.


People know that a person using a gun can kill more people in a short amount of time than say if someone was to run into a school with a knife. I really wish gun enthusiasts would show more understanding of the concerns of folks that don't own guns - then maybe we can all work together to limit these horrible events.


Image

A society that is well armed, and well educated will always be a safer society than the one that is disarmed and waiting around for the cops to show up.

_________________
Its a Wonderful Life


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:12 am 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 15767
Location: Vail, CO
Gender: Male
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:23 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:37 am
Posts: 2465
Location: A dark place
LittleWing wrote:
A society that is well armed, and well educated will always be a safer society than the one that is disarmed and waiting around for the cops to show up.

I agree, a psych eval AND college diploma should be a requirement for owning a gun. Best idea you've ever had LW. Bravo!

_________________
Do you like crappy amateur photography? Check out my photo blog here.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:35 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 10694
62strat wrote:
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


No, that's not it at all. The point is that when it comes to guns, rightfully or wrongly, purposefully or not purposefully, when it comes to guns there is one thing you hear about - the death toll.

You never hear about the people who are saved, and you're never told whether arms are legally owned in crimes or not. As a result a good portion of the country makes their decision on whether guns are bad or good based on assymetric information. If the only thing you ever about from guns is the death toll, but there's a whole 'nother realm of information out there to consider, how can you declare that you've made a rational judgment on the issue?

_________________
Its a Wonderful Life


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:00 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 8288
LittleWing wrote:
px wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Yeah, there's nothing more amusing than people who know absolutely nothing about guns, trying to figure out ways to limit their use.


People know that a person using a gun can kill more people in a short amount of time than say if someone was to run into a school with a knife. I really wish gun enthusiasts would show more understanding of the concerns of folks that don't own guns - then maybe we can all work together to limit these horrible events.


Image

A society that is well armed, and well educated will always be a safer society than the one that is disarmed and waiting around for the cops to show up.

that was actually one of the first of this rash of murders, before it was a very big deal. I still heard about it though. and by the way, he stopped him after he shot everyone and was leaving.

_________________
Sweep the leg!


Last edited by bmacsmith on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:04 am 
Offline
User avatar
Spacegirl
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 40914
LittleWing wrote:
62strat wrote:
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


No, that's not it at all. The point is that when it comes to guns, rightfully or wrongly, purposefully or not purposefully, when it comes to guns there is one thing you hear about - the death toll.

You never hear about the people who are saved, and you're never told whether arms are legally owned in crimes or not. As a result a good portion of the country makes their decision on whether guns are bad or good based on assymetric information. If the only thing you ever about from guns is the death toll, but there's a whole 'nother realm of information out there to consider, how can you declare that you've made a rational judgment on the issue?

So you're suggesting there'd be even more of these mass shootings in the US if guns were banned?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:09 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 8288
Spike wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
62strat wrote:
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


No, that's not it at all. The point is that when it comes to guns, rightfully or wrongly, purposefully or not purposefully, when it comes to guns there is one thing you hear about - the death toll.

You never hear about the people who are saved, and you're never told whether arms are legally owned in crimes or not. As a result a good portion of the country makes their decision on whether guns are bad or good based on assymetric information. If the only thing you ever about from guns is the death toll, but there's a whole 'nother realm of information out there to consider, how can you declare that you've made a rational judgment on the issue?

So you're suggesting there'd be even more of these mass shootings in the US if guns were banned?

and fewer if everyone was armed but "educated". It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand how to be responsible with a gun, yet so many make no effort to be. the fact that this keeps happeing has nothing to do with education not being available.

_________________
Sweep the leg!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:03 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 10694
Spike wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
62strat wrote:
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


No, that's not it at all. The point is that when it comes to guns, rightfully or wrongly, purposefully or not purposefully, when it comes to guns there is one thing you hear about - the death toll.

You never hear about the people who are saved, and you're never told whether arms are legally owned in crimes or not. As a result a good portion of the country makes their decision on whether guns are bad or good based on assymetric information. If the only thing you ever about from guns is the death toll, but there's a whole 'nother realm of information out there to consider, how can you declare that you've made a rational judgment on the issue?

So you're suggesting there'd be even more of these mass shootings in the US if guns were banned?


Yes I do. I don't think there would be much change in terms of crazy people murdering their mothers and shooting up classrooms full of children, they'll either find guns, or pursue other means, but I'd bet you anything that you'd see an explosion in gang violence, and an explosion in crimes everywhere such as robbery, home invasion, and rape. I'm pretty sure that the last assault weapons ban had no statistical impact on crimes such as this.

If you ban guns every major metropolitan area will face the same disaster that Chicago and DC have endured. And you risk turning cities such as Albequeque, Los Angeles, and El Paso into quasi-war zones where the cartels will control everything and run roughshod over everybody else.

The drug war isn't going to end any time soon, and the demand from the same people for weapons won't either. No bans are going to stop it.

_________________
Its a Wonderful Life


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:12 am 
Offline
User avatar
Spacegirl
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 40914
LittleWing wrote:
Spike wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
62strat wrote:
Oh i get it. The lamestream media is out to get all the gun owners and their pistolas!


No, that's not it at all. The point is that when it comes to guns, rightfully or wrongly, purposefully or not purposefully, when it comes to guns there is one thing you hear about - the death toll.

You never hear about the people who are saved, and you're never told whether arms are legally owned in crimes or not. As a result a good portion of the country makes their decision on whether guns are bad or good based on assymetric information. If the only thing you ever about from guns is the death toll, but there's a whole 'nother realm of information out there to consider, how can you declare that you've made a rational judgment on the issue?

So you're suggesting there'd be even more of these mass shootings in the US if guns were banned?


Yes I do. I don't think there would be much change in terms of crazy people murdering their mothers and shooting up classrooms full of children, they'll either find guns, or pursue other means, but I'd bet you anything that you'd see an explosion in gang violence, and an explosion in crimes everywhere such as robbery, home invasion, and rape. I'm pretty sure that the last assault weapons ban had no statistical impact on crimes such as this.

If you ban guns every major metropolitan area will face the same disaster that Chicago and DC have endured. And you risk turning cities such as Albequeque, Los Angeles, and El Paso into quasi-war zones where the cartels will control everything and run roughshod over everybody else.

The drug war isn't going to end any time soon, and the demand from the same people for weapons won't either. No bans are going to stop it.

Wait, so armed citizens like yourself have been keeping the gangs and cartels mostly at bay all this time? Thanks cowboy, I had no idea!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:37 am 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:16 pm
Posts: 19724
Location: Montreal, QC
Gender: Male
How many shootings of this kind have taken place? How many were "stopped" after the killer had shot at least one victim?

_________________
chud wrote:
Posting! Glorious Posting!

durdencommatyler wrote:
iPones, man. Fuck.


Proud member of: Team Binaural and Team Argo


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:43 am 
Offline
User avatar
The Snowboy
 Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:53 pm
Posts: 11395
How many guns used in the 31 high school shootings since Columbine were obtained legally? Anyone know?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:37 am
Posts: 2465
Location: A dark place
Image

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... siness_pop

_________________
Do you like crappy amateur photography? Check out my photo blog here.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:29 am 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:38 am
Posts: 18049
LittleWing wrote:
px wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Yeah, there's nothing more amusing than people who know absolutely nothing about guns, trying to figure out ways to limit their use.


People know that a person using a gun can kill more people in a short amount of time than say if someone was to run into a school with a knife. I really wish gun enthusiasts would show more understanding of the concerns of folks that don't own guns - then maybe we can all work together to limit these horrible events.


Image

A society that is well armed, and well educated will always be a safer society than the one that is disarmed and waiting around for the cops to show up.


I hate to break it to you LW, but our society is not well educated. We're well armed though, so something something cart before the horse.

_________________
"A waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap." -
Mitch Hedberg


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:40 am 
Offline
User avatar
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:36 pm
Posts: 3271
Location: Chicago
I'm afraid of Americans, I'm afraid of the world. - David Bowie

_________________
strobe lights and blown speakers.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:01 am 
Offline
User avatar
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:51 am
Posts: 4009
Location: S. Florida
Gender: Female
I'm not sure how "old news" this is but....

japan forbids gun ownership and has on average TWO HOMICIDES FROM GUNS a YEAR!

http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... hs/260189/

of course there's a slew of different reasons why this "works" over there.

but work it does

_________________
Can you feel the magic?
Oh, yeah


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1657 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 ... 83  Next

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:14 am