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 Post subject: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:33 pm 
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More- ... -Time.aspx

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Last edited by Man in Black on Fri May 15, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:38 pm 
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A new survey from Pew Research which suggests that a declining number of Americans support the option of abortion in all or most cases is receiving a fair amount of attention. But is there actually any evidence that public sentiments on abortion are changing?

In my opinion, probably not -- and if there is change in public opinion, it is occurring very slowly. The chart below is populated with data from PollingReport.com and incorporates data from eight organizations -- ABC/Washington Post, Quinnipiac, Pew, LA Times/Bloomberg, AP/Ipsos, CBS, NBC/WSJ and CNN -- that ask respondents a four-option question about abortion, where they are given a choice between saying abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in all cases, or illegal in most cases. We then draw a linear trendline through the individual datapoints.

Image

Although two recent surveys -- the Pew poll conducted last month and an NBC/WSJ poll conducted in September -- indicated smaller-than-usual margins for the legal option, this is countered by a large amount of data from earlier in 2008 which indicated support for legal abortion at about its typical levels in the mid-50's. While it's possible that public opinion has shifted more dramatically on this issue since sometime late last year, it seems highly unlikely. Polls don't move without reasons, and abortion hasn't been particularly in the news of late. Who knows -- maybe Baby Trig won over a few hearts and minds -- but odds are the Pew result is a mild outlier. Since the abortion choice question is surveyed quite frequently, we will know soon enough.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

What now collection of cells killers?

*

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:47 pm 
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B wrote:
Quote:
A new survey from Pew Research which suggests that a declining number of Americans support the option of abortion in all or most cases is receiving a fair amount of attention. But is there actually any evidence that public sentiments on abortion are changing?

In my opinion, probably not -- and if there is change in public opinion, it is occurring very slowly. The chart below is populated with data from PollingReport.com and incorporates data from eight organizations -- ABC/Washington Post, Quinnipiac, Pew, LA Times/Bloomberg, AP/Ipsos, CBS, NBC/WSJ and CNN -- that ask respondents a four-option question about abortion, where they are given a choice between saying abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in all cases, or illegal in most cases. We then draw a linear trendline through the individual datapoints.

Image

Although two recent surveys -- the Pew poll conducted last month and an NBC/WSJ poll conducted in September -- indicated smaller-than-usual margins for the legal option, this is countered by a large amount of data from earlier in 2008 which indicated support for legal abortion at about its typical levels in the mid-50's. While it's possible that public opinion has shifted more dramatically on this issue since sometime late last year, it seems highly unlikely. Polls don't move without reasons, and abortion hasn't been particularly in the news of late. Who knows -- maybe Baby Trig won over a few hearts and minds -- but odds are the Pew result is a mild outlier. Since the abortion choice question is surveyed quite frequently, we will know soon enough.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/


Well it would seem that the Gallup poll backs up the Pew and NBC poll, now doesn't it, sir?

Perhaps people are actually starting to think about this question?

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:50 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
Man in Black wrote:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

What now collection of cells killers?

*

Because we as living, functioning, human beings are much more than just the product of successful cell division, replication, etc when you get down to it.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:07 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
What now baby killers?

my opinion on the issue aside, this :poke: brought the lulz.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
Well it would seem that the Gallup poll backs up the Pew and NBC poll, now doesn't it, sir?

Perhaps people are actually starting to think about this question?

Ok now that really made me laugh for about 4 different reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:34 pm 
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:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:05 pm 
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I find that line of questioning very vague.
I mean if you're for choice in the non-viable period (ie up to 22 weeks), let alone first trimester (as is the legal limit in many countries), and for life (with exceptions for health reasons) after, does it make you a 'most circumstances' or a 'few circumstances' person?

depending how the question was actually asked or even perceived it can make a wide difference.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:01 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Man in Black wrote:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

What now collection of cells killers?

*

Because we as living, functioning, human beings are much more than just the product of successful cell division, replication, etc when you get down to it.

we may be merely the product of division and replication, but the product is sentience, consciousness, a grown human being, not a clump of unaware cells unable to feel anything (just in case anyone's wondering, i'm only talking about the first trimester at the most).

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Pegasus wrote:
I find that line of questioning very vague.
I mean if you're for choice in the non-viable period (ie up to 22 weeks), let alone first trimester (as is the legal limit in many countries), and for life (with exceptions for health reasons) after, does it make you a 'most circumstances' or a 'few circumstances' person?

depending how the question was actually asked or even perceived it can make a wide difference.

this is a good point; those results make it tough to distinguish at which point most people draw the line and if that has changed over time

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?

I mean, those people are still pro-choice, they just think their choices are better, right?

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Sandler wrote:
Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?


hm. interesting question. i've always wondered: if someone believes abortion is truly murder, how can it ever be allowable? how does rape excuse a murder? unless a woman is guaranteed to die if she goes through with the birth, how can a likelihood outweigh a certainty (the abortion/murder)?

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Sandler wrote:
Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?

I mean, those people are still pro-choice, they just think their choices are better, right?

I think most pro-choice people make for some allowances except for the really hardcore ones. I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:09 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
Sandler wrote:
Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?


hm. interesting question. i've always wondered: if someone believes abortion is truly murder, how can it ever be allowable? how does rape excuse a murder? unless a woman is guaranteed to die if she goes through with the birth, how can a likelihood outweigh a certainty (the abortion/murder)?

It can't.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:30 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
Sandler wrote:
Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?


hm. interesting question. i've always wondered: if someone believes abortion is truly murder, how can it ever be allowable? how does rape excuse a murder? unless a woman is guaranteed to die if she goes through with the birth, how can a likelihood outweigh a certainty (the abortion/murder)?

Silly ceebs. Even if the woman is 100% going to die, is it ok to murder one human being to save another? I think we know the answer.

Keep in mind that most of these pro-life people (most people in general, actually) probably don't think it's ok to murder one person to save 10, let alone to save 1.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Buffalohed wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Sandler wrote:
Do you guys consider people who are "pro-life" but allow for abortion in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical necessity to really be pro-choice?


hm. interesting question. i've always wondered: if someone believes abortion is truly murder, how can it ever be allowable? how does rape excuse a murder? unless a woman is guaranteed to die if she goes through with the birth, how can a likelihood outweigh a certainty (the abortion/murder)?

Silly ceebs. Even if the woman is 100% going to die, is it ok to murder one human being to save another? I think we know the answer.

Keep in mind that most of these pro-life people (most people in general, actually) probably don't think it's ok to murder one person to save 10, let alone to save 1.

well, that would be the only situation in which i could see the above-mentioned abortion morality really hitting a 50-50 dilemma.

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 Post subject: Re: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Murdering is a sin. Failing to save a life by not committing murder is not a sin.

I don't see how it's 50/50. It's not an equal trade, it's murder.

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