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 Post subject: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:06 pm 
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I heard this on the radio yesterday, and thankfully I've been able to find it. I think it something that is definitely worth noting and discussing. What do you folks feel about this? Do we need more information? Is it justified? Should there be limits on salary growth during a recession? Should government sector pay be tied to some metric of the private sector?

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For feds, more get 6-figure salaries
Average pay $30,000 over private sector
By Dennis Cauchon
USA TODAY

The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.

Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.

Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.

The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.

When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.

The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech. The primary cause: substantial pay raises and new salary rules.

"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.

Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.

USA TODAY analyzed the Office of Personnel Management's database that tracks salaries of more than 2 million federal workers. Excluded from OPM's data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.

The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector.

Key reasons for the boom in six-figure salaries:

•Pay hikes. Then-president Bush recommended — and Congress approved — across-the-board raises of 3% in January 2008 and 3.9% in January 2009. President Obama has recommended 2% pay raises in January 2010, the smallest since 1975. Most federal workers also get longevity pay hikes — called steps — that average 1.5% per year.

•New pay system. Congress created a new National Security Personnel System for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012.

•Pay caps eased. Many top civil servants are prohibited from making more than an agency's leader. But if Congress lifts the boss' salary, others get raises, too. When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:11 pm 
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I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:34 am 
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bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.

Agreed.

and there was this as well
Quote:
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:38 am 
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Quote:
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.


would seem to relate to the stimulus package, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:45 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:51 am 
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Human Bass wrote:

Is this a joke? Why are there like 30 people around and only five of them paying attention?


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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:53 am 
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tryinmorning wrote:
Human Bass wrote:

Is this a joke? Why are there like 30 people around and only five of them paying attention?

Politics are little more than theater, friend.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:56 am 
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thodoks wrote:
tryinmorning wrote:
Human Bass wrote:

Is this a joke? Why are there like 30 people around and only five of them paying attention?

Politics are little more than theater, friend.

I'm not sure if it's a comedy or a tragedy.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:43 am 
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thodoks wrote:
tryinmorning wrote:
Human Bass wrote:

Is this a joke? Why are there like 30 people around and only five of them paying attention?

Politics Oklahoma Joe's are is little no more less than theater awesome, friend.


FTFY.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:48 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.


They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:52 pm 
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tryinmorning wrote:
Quote:
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:54 pm 
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also, "average" is a very misleading statistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:27 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.


They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.

Or if a position was previously available but continually went unfilled because the gov't couldn't compete with what the private sector was offering. I know I've read plenty of stories about the government needing more people in this or that position but not being able to get them due private employers offering better benefits and salaries. In a recession I imagine there are less jobs out there to choose from and the security of a government job looks pretty attractive.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.


They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.

Or if a position was previously available but continually went unfilled because the gov't couldn't compete with what the private sector was offering. I know I've read plenty of stories about the government needing more people in this or that position but not being able to get them due private employers offering better benefits and salaries. In a recession I imagine there are less jobs out there to choose from and the security of a government job looks pretty attractive.


Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government? Many companies don't do the whole lifetime pension thing. From what I understand, the private sector has been more inclined to use higher salary as its selling point, and the government has used pension to draw people in.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:51 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government?

Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:05 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government?

Yes.


Well, I suppose the government can't offer millions of dollars in stock options.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Anyone in the defense or intelligence field can vouch that people are pretty much expected to leave the government, at least temporarily, after a few years' employment. I know someone at the NSA, and at orientation they often tell new hires that they only expect to keep them for a limited period before they get a better job (with better pay AND benefits) with a contractor. Many spend their careers bouncing back and forth from public to private employment, depending on the economy and other factors.

I can also tell you that from what I've heard, the merit pay system for DoD that Congress recently killed was a long overdue improvement. For years NSA, DIA and others haven't been able to compete with the CIA for the best employees, since as in independent agency CIA could offer merit pay and better perks in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:32 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
I can also tell you that from what I've heard, the merit pay system for DoD that Congress recently killed was a long overdue improvement. For years NSA, DIA and others haven't been able to compete with the CIA for the best employees, since as in independent agency CIA could offer merit pay and better perks in general.

Something else lost in the unfortunate decision to kill merit-based pay is that it would have afforded the DoD the opportunity to jettison the deadwood that inhabits most of its cubicles. Doing so would have enabled them to pass on some of those savings to those employees who are actually earning their keep.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:25 am 
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thodoks wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government?

Yes.


i'm in state government. i have a hard time imagining a benefits package that sucks worse than mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:41 am 
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Im glad for you guys. Here in Brazil public jobs have some outrageous benefits, so a lot of people here dream of being a entitled sloath under the state breasts.

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