Post subject: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:06 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am Posts: 10694
I heard this on the radio yesterday, and thankfully I've been able to find it. I think it something that is definitely worth noting and discussing. What do you folks feel about this? Do we need more information? Is it justified? Should there be limits on salary growth during a recession? Should government sector pay be tied to some metric of the private sector?
Quote:
For feds, more get 6-figure salaries Average pay $30,000 over private sector By Dennis Cauchon USA TODAY
The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.
Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.
Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.
The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.
The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech. The primary cause: substantial pay raises and new salary rules.
"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
USA TODAY analyzed the Office of Personnel Management's database that tracks salaries of more than 2 million federal workers. Excluded from OPM's data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.
The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector.
Key reasons for the boom in six-figure salaries:
•Pay hikes. Then-president Bush recommended — and Congress approved — across-the-board raises of 3% in January 2008 and 3.9% in January 2009. President Obama has recommended 2% pay raises in January 2010, the smallest since 1975. Most federal workers also get longevity pay hikes — called steps — that average 1.5% per year.
•New pay system. Congress created a new National Security Personnel System for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012.
•Pay caps eased. Many top civil servants are prohibited from making more than an agency's leader. But if Congress lifts the boss' salary, others get raises, too. When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:11 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am Posts: 17563
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.
_________________
Quote:
The content of the video in this situation is irrelevant to the issue.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:34 am
Hipster doofus
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:35 am Posts: 18585 Location: In a box Gender: Male
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.
Agreed.
and there was this as well
Quote:
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:38 am
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
Quote:
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.
would seem to relate to the stimulus package, right?
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:45 am
Menace to Dogciety
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm Posts: 12287 Location: Manguetown Gender: Male
_________________ There's just no mercy in your eyes There ain't no time to set things right And I'm afraid I've lost the fight I'm just a painful reminder Another day you leave behind
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:48 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.
They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:52 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
tryinmorning wrote:
Quote:
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:27 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am Posts: 17563
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.
They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.
Or if a position was previously available but continually went unfilled because the gov't couldn't compete with what the private sector was offering. I know I've read plenty of stories about the government needing more people in this or that position but not being able to get them due private employers offering better benefits and salaries. In a recession I imagine there are less jobs out there to choose from and the security of a government job looks pretty attractive.
_________________
Quote:
The content of the video in this situation is irrelevant to the issue.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
bart d. wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
bart d. wrote:
I don't see how the reasons the article listed could explain the jump in salary. Seems more likely that more highly skilled workers are choosing to take positions with the gov't because of the shitty economy, so the number of highly paid positions has increased.
They can only choose to take a position if a new position becomes available.
Or if a position was previously available but continually went unfilled because the gov't couldn't compete with what the private sector was offering. I know I've read plenty of stories about the government needing more people in this or that position but not being able to get them due private employers offering better benefits and salaries. In a recession I imagine there are less jobs out there to choose from and the security of a government job looks pretty attractive.
Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government? Many companies don't do the whole lifetime pension thing. From what I understand, the private sector has been more inclined to use higher salary as its selling point, and the government has used pension to draw people in.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:13 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am Posts: 17563
Anyone in the defense or intelligence field can vouch that people are pretty much expected to leave the government, at least temporarily, after a few years' employment. I know someone at the NSA, and at orientation they often tell new hires that they only expect to keep them for a limited period before they get a better job (with better pay AND benefits) with a contractor. Many spend their careers bouncing back and forth from public to private employment, depending on the economy and other factors.
I can also tell you that from what I've heard, the merit pay system for DoD that Congress recently killed was a long overdue improvement. For years NSA, DIA and others haven't been able to compete with the CIA for the best employees, since as in independent agency CIA could offer merit pay and better perks in general.
_________________
Quote:
The content of the video in this situation is irrelevant to the issue.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:32 pm
statistically insignificant
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:19 pm Posts: 25134
bart d. wrote:
I can also tell you that from what I've heard, the merit pay system for DoD that Congress recently killed was a long overdue improvement. For years NSA, DIA and others haven't been able to compete with the CIA for the best employees, since as in independent agency CIA could offer merit pay and better perks in general.
Something else lost in the unfortunate decision to kill merit-based pay is that it would have afforded the DoD the opportunity to jettison the deadwood that inhabits most of its cubicles. Doing so would have enabled them to pass on some of those savings to those employees who are actually earning their keep.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:25 am
too drunk to moderate properly
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
thodoks wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Does anyone really offer better benefits than the government?
Yes.
i'm in state government. i have a hard time imagining a benefits package that sucks worse than mine.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Post subject: Re: Government Workers Prosper During Recession
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:41 am
Menace to Dogciety
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm Posts: 12287 Location: Manguetown Gender: Male
Im glad for you guys. Here in Brazil public jobs have some outrageous benefits, so a lot of people here dream of being a entitled sloath under the state breasts.
_________________ There's just no mercy in your eyes There ain't no time to set things right And I'm afraid I've lost the fight I'm just a painful reminder Another day you leave behind
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum