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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Stephen_Malkmus wrote:
given2trade wrote:
Stephen_Malkmus wrote:
Dead serious: Should I sell my Patrick Roy Autograph hockey card now or wait 10 years down the road? I can get at least 500$ for it, but it would most likely sell around 1200 to 1500$. The rarity of this card will always be there - there are only 2 of its kind out there. Will the collectors market crash anytime soon? I probably know the answer to this question, but i would love to hear this from a (presumably) non card collector.

cheers,
Matt


About 15 years ago, I had a sports card business. I used to set up at shows and wholesale autographs. I have not been involved since the mid 90's, however.

In general, sports cards make for horrible investments. However, a very rare card that has been around for a while (it's value is stable and it's not the "hot" thing) is a decent asset. I'd rather own a cash producing business or an asset that has economic value. I have no idea if you should sell your card or not.


Thanks for the info nonetheless - i guess my presumption was wrong :lol:

As someone who's collected for 17+ years, I actually have a rather small collection of cards. I only collect the stable value type and not the "hot" player of the moment. Very good point made by you, sir.


It's weird though: A Michael Jordan 86 Fleer PSA graded 10 has had huge fluctuation in value over the years and there is nothing more "blue chip" than that. When you get a really premium sports card it's no different than a piece of art. The price is set by supply/demand not standard valuation metrics. Like art, in a recession sports cards are going to decline in value as they are a luxury item that doesn't have any tangible value.

Image

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Last edited by given2trade on Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:10 pm 
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That advice you just gave was pretty topps. I mean, you really hit it into the upper deck.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:11 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Orpheus wrote:
That advice you just gave was pretty topps. I mean, you really hit it into the upper deck.


If you figured out a way to incorporate Fleer and Leaf into your post I'd have been more impressed.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:14 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
Orpheus wrote:
That advice you just gave was pretty topps. I mean, you really hit it into the upper deck.


If you figured out a way to incorporate Fleer and Leaf into your post I'd have been more impressed.


I tried, but couldn't.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:15 pm 
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homersheineken wrote:
given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


And let's not forget how much it sucks living with your parents...which I assume he is doing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:18 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
Explain how you decide whether its advantageous to rent or buy a home.

Are you buying a home as an investment, or as a place to put down roots and start a life?

IMO, part of the reason we're in this mess is because somehow a home became an investment rather than a long-term durable good.

I'm not. I managed to convince my wife that we're (much) better off renting right now. We found a little 3/1 house, got out of our apartment and are paying only $25 more a month and the pressure to think about buying right now is gone. I have to reread Given's answer, because 99% of what he said I know. I just need to do the math to figure out the % thing he was talking about. I remember him saying that in the economy thread before so that's why I asked again to see what that number was supposed to represent.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:26 pm 
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4/5: That's just my number. It represents my opportunity cost. At a cost of 1-2%, I would much rather have my capital in the stock market. Once you approach 4-5%, it makes more sense, for me, to think about buying vs. renting.

In reality, I probably will never get in a situation where it makes sense for me to own vs. rent but I will buy one day when I have a family. Maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:30 pm 
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I'm good with numbers so you don't have to take me there, but tell me how to get there. What am I putting the rent up against to figure out 1-2%? I tried doing it a few different ways, IE figuring out my current rent v. potential mortgage, homeowners ins, property taxes, maintance. Anyway that I did it I wasn't coming up with anything in the ballpark of a low percent. So what's the time frame I'm basing this on?

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:40 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
I'm good with numbers so you don't have to take me there, but tell me how to get there. What am I putting the rent up against to figure out 1-2%? I tried doing it a few different ways, IE figuring out my current rent v. potential mortgage, homeowners ins, property taxes, maintance. Anyway that I did it I wasn't coming up with anything in the ballpark of a low percent. So what's the time frame I'm basing this on?


Here is a practical example:

House is for sale for $200,000. Property taxes = 1.5%. Maintenance = .5%. Mortgage = 5%. Rent = $500 month/$6000 a year.

How much are you paying in rent? $200,000/6,000 = 3%. Fairly simple. How much is ownership going to cost you? $40,000 down, $160,000 mortgage. $858 a month according to a mortgage calculator, 30 year fixed. Also, you will be paying $4000 a year in taxes and maintenance. Total = more than $14,000 a year out the door. But wait, there's more. The $40,000 you put down cannot be invested. Assuming you can make 8% a year off of that $40,000, your opportunity cost is $3200 you are not earning by buying vs. renting.

There is a lot more to it than this. There are tax advantages from buying vs. renting and there is also the possibility your house rises in value over time. Also, in 30 years, you would obviously own your home free and clear even if it doesn't appreciate. But you paid a lot for that privilege. If you took the $14,000 + the $3200 = $17200 and subtract it from rent, $6000, you're left with over $11,000 a year. That $11,000, over 30 years, compounded (and you add $11,000 EACH YEAR), is a huge amount of money.

This is why the "ownership" society can be bullshit. You owned something: stocks. You just didn't own your house.

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Last edited by given2trade on Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:40 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


And let's not forget how much it sucks living with your parents...which I assume he is doing.


Well, not exactly. I've been living in a family member's condo. For a couple of years i've been helping with the mortgage payments. The family member lost his job and is in the process of foreclosure. So as of now, i am living rent free. I was thinking about purchasing the condo. It's a 3 bedroom/2 bath penthouse in Chicago purchased for about $380,000 in late 2007. The bank won't allow him to sell to a family member so if i decide to buy it, i'll have to wait till it goes to auction. From what i hear, foreclosed condo's are going to be real cheap, it might be a good investment if the price is right. I know the expenses associated with owning a home, I just don't want to be held down by a $1500+ mortgage payment. I guess we'll see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:44 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
given2trade wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


And let's not forget how much it sucks living with your parents...which I assume he is doing.


Well, not exactly. I've been living in a family member's condo. For a couple of years i've been helping with the mortgage payments. The family member lost his job and is in the process of foreclosure. So as of now, i am living rent free. I was thinking about purchasing the condo. It's a 3 bedroom/2 bath penthouse in Chicago purchased for about $380,000 in late 2007. The bank won't allow him to sell to a family member so if i decide to buy it, i'll have to wait till it goes to auction. From what i hear, foreclosed condo's are going to be real cheap, it might be a good investment if the price is right. I know the expenses associated with owning a home, I just don't want to be held down by a $1500+ mortgage payment. I guess we'll see what happens.


Tread carefully. Flexibility is priceless. It might be hard going from not paying rent to paying someone rent. It might feel like you are pissing money away. Imagine if you were the family member who owned the condo you are in right now. He lost is job and now he is going to lose his home. He probably also lost a down payment.

If you think you are going to stay in Chicago for at least 5 years, you can look into doing it. But the flexibility of renting vs. owning is huge and should not be discounted.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:47 pm 
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just cracked open a beer, cant wait to read these 5 pages :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Hey Doug. What are you drinking? Is Sierra Nevada public? What's the best brewery to invest in?

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:50 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
Hey Doug. What are you drinking? Is Sierra Nevada public? What's the best brewery to invest in?


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=SAM

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:52 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
given2trade wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


And let's not forget how much it sucks living with your parents...which I assume he is doing.


Well, not exactly. I've been living in a family member's condo. For a couple of years i've been helping with the mortgage payments. The family member lost his job and is in the process of foreclosure. So as of now, i am living rent free. I was thinking about purchasing the condo. It's a 3 bedroom/2 bath penthouse in Chicago purchased for about $380,000 in late 2007. The bank won't allow him to sell to a family member so if i decide to buy it, i'll have to wait till it goes to auction. From what i hear, foreclosed condo's are going to be real cheap, it might be a good investment if the price is right. I know the expenses associated with owning a home, I just don't want to be held down by a $1500+ mortgage payment. I guess we'll see what happens.


Where in Chicago?


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:54 pm 
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ha, I'm drinking Sierra Fresh Hop ale...I've never invested in a brewery but I was going to say boston as well...btw matt, I used to work in a card shop in the early 90s as well...good times


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Another thing to think about if you're singled and you're going to stay put for awhile.... If you get a roommate or two, you can significantly reduce your monthly cost of owning a home. I consider it a mistake to have bought my house (a year and a half ago I didn't understand finance and economics nearly as well as I do now), but having roommate(s) has reduced my monthly payment by 25-50%. And I still have empty rooms. If I fully utilized my spare rooms, I could give them a below-market price and still pay no more than what I charge them (after tax deductions, it would basically be free). It is a little bit of work having tenants, but it can definitely improve the bottom line.

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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:56 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
given2trade wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
given2trade wrote:
washing machine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
what would you do financially in this situation?

I am 26 years old, and make about $50,000 a year.
I have close to $30,000 in savings.
Value of my 401k is about $3,000.
Only debt i have is a montly $400 car payment.

Lucky!


Actually, nothing lucky about it at all. He probably worked hard and instead of spending money on things he didn't need, he saved it. It's actually the exact opposite of luck...skill?


Well he is living rent free, that is like hitting the lottery ;)

But you're right that doesn't take away from hard work, frugality, etc....


And let's not forget how much it sucks living with your parents...which I assume he is doing.


Well, not exactly. I've been living in a family member's condo. For a couple of years i've been helping with the mortgage payments. The family member lost his job and is in the process of foreclosure. So as of now, i am living rent free. I was thinking about purchasing the condo. It's a 3 bedroom/2 bath penthouse in Chicago purchased for about $380,000 in late 2007. The bank won't allow him to sell to a family member so if i decide to buy it, i'll have to wait till it goes to auction. From what i hear, foreclosed condo's are going to be real cheap, it might be a good investment if the price is right. I know the expenses associated with owning a home, I just don't want to be held down by a $1500+ mortgage payment. I guess we'll see what happens.


Are you even allowed to finance a purchase through a foreclosure auction?


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 Post subject: Re: The Stock Market/Personal Finance Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:59 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Another thing to think about if you're singled and you're going to stay put for awhile.... If you get a roommate or two, you can significantly reduce your monthly cost of owning a home. I consider it a mistake to have bought my house (a year and a half ago I didn't understand finance and economics nearly as well as I do now), but having roommate(s) has reduced my monthly payment by 25-50%. And I still have empty rooms. If I fully utilized my spare rooms, I could give them a below-market price and still pay no more than what I charge them (after tax deductions, it would basically be free). It is a little bit of work having tenants, but it can definitely improve the bottom line.

Yeah, but what if they bring dogs home?

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