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 Post subject: Who needs the first amendment anyway
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:49 am 
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First Amendment No Big Deal, Students Say

1 hour, 38 minutes ago

Add to My Yahoo! U.S. National - AP

By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer

WASHINGTON - The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released Monday.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press and assembly.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."

The students are even more restrictive in their views than their elders, the study says.

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.

The results reflected indifference, with almost three in four students saying they took the First Amendment for granted or didn't know how they felt about it. It was also clear that many students do not understand what is protected by the bedrock of the Bill of Rights.

Three in four students said flag burning is illegal. It's not. About half the students said the government can restrict any indecent material on the Internet. It can't.

"Schools don't do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don't know the rights it protects," Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. "This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment."

The partners in the project, including organizations of newspaper editors and radio and television news directors, share a clear advocacy for First Amendment issues.

Federal and state officials, meanwhile, have bemoaned a lack of knowledge of U.S. civics and history among young people. Sen. Robert Byrd (news, bio, voting record), D-W.Va., has even pushed through a mandate that schools must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the date it was signed in 1787.

The survey, conducted by researchers at the University of Connecticut, is billed as the largest of its kind. More than 100,000 students, nearly 8,000 teachers and more than 500 administrators at 544 public and private high schools took part in early 2004.

The study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are taught about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don't make the matter a priority.

Students who take part in school media activities, such as a student newspapers or TV production, are much more likely to support expression of unpopular views, for example.

About nine in 10 principals said it is important for all students to learn some journalism skills, but most administrators say a lack of money limits their media offerings.

More than one in five schools offer no student media opportunities; of the high schools that do not offer student newspapers, 40 percent have eliminated them in the last five years.

"The last 15 years have not been a golden era for student media," said Warren Watson, director of the J-Ideas project at Ball State University in Indiana. "Programs are under siege or dying from neglect. Many students do not get the opportunity to practice our basic freedoms."

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:59 am 
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I'm sure the Constitution isn't the only thing kids ignore.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:43 am 
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As a high school senior (and at the risk of sounding like an elitist), I can attest to the general ignorance that surrounds me at this level. Simply put, I think many of my peers take liberties for granted because they do not regularly enter their daily lives. As someone with an interest in politics, and more specifically, leftist politics, I am far more aware of the fragility of civil liberties and free speech than those who are concerned solely with who is dating who and who 'talked shit' about who, and, on a more worldly level, what movies are out or what teams are playing. They feel the first amendment is too extreme because they have a limited conception of what it is, and when they find that more and more is guarenteed then previously thought, they are shocked and view it as too much. I've feared for my generation (although I'm sure other generations have seen similar), which is why I was glad that this election at least seemed to get more interest out of more people in the school. Still though, a general conception of government and law eludes the majority who unfortunately don't see it as consequental to their current lives.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:55 am 
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Betterman0986 wrote:
As a high school senior (and at the risk of sounding like an elitist), I can attest to the general ignorance that surrounds me at this level. Simply put, I think many of my peers take liberties for granted because they do not regularly enter their daily lives. As someone with an interest in politics, and more specifically, leftist politics, I am far more aware of the fragility of civil liberties and free speech than those who are concerned solely with who is dating who and who 'talked shit' about who, and, on a more worldly level, what movies are out or what teams are playing. They feel the first amendment is too extreme because they have a limited conception of what it is, and when they find that more and more is guarenteed then previously thought, they are shocked and view it as too much. I've feared for my generation (although I'm sure other generations have seen similar), which is why I was glad that this election at least seemed to get more interest out of more people in the school. Still though, a general conception of government and law eludes the majority who unfortunately don't see it as consequental to their current lives.


I've said to you before, but I'm always impressed by how much you know at your age.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:06 am 
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I really don't take much stock in these results...

Surveys are not an effective tool at gauging in-depth opinions such as civil liberties....

I wonder how many students could even list 3 rights granted by the 1st Amendment....their answers are in effect, random.

On survey responses, adults tend to be intolerent of Civil Liberties as well, but when probed, and offered information and alternatives, they become more tolerent.

This "story," in my mind, highlights the problem with survey research more than it does any consitutional disregard of America's youth.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:14 am 
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meh


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:27 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
Betterman0986 wrote:
As a high school senior (and at the risk of sounding like an elitist), I can attest to the general ignorance that surrounds me at this level. Simply put, I think many of my peers take liberties for granted because they do not regularly enter their daily lives. As someone with an interest in politics, and more specifically, leftist politics, I am far more aware of the fragility of civil liberties and free speech than those who are concerned solely with who is dating who and who 'talked shit' about who, and, on a more worldly level, what movies are out or what teams are playing. They feel the first amendment is too extreme because they have a limited conception of what it is, and when they find that more and more is guarenteed then previously thought, they are shocked and view it as too much. I've feared for my generation (although I'm sure other generations have seen similar), which is why I was glad that this election at least seemed to get more interest out of more people in the school. Still though, a general conception of government and law eludes the majority who unfortunately don't see it as consequental to their current lives.


I've said to you before, but I'm always impressed by how much you know at your age.


Thank you, but I really have to credit the environment I'm in, which is a 'specialized learning center' within the school that focuses on International Studies. I was never really political until others around me started expressing viewpoints that I either agreed or disagreed (mostly the latter) with. This forced me to take an interest that I'd never quite had before in politics (my love had always been just pure history) to engage in meaningful debates and discussions with my peers and friends.

I think on the whole, anyone is capable of understanding the world, the government, society, etc. but you just have to make the effort.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:35 am 
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Betterman0986 wrote:
Thank you, but I really have to credit the environment I'm in, which is a 'specialized learning center' within the school that focuses on International Studies.


Not to get off-topic any more but that's awesome, I was in the Science/Engineering program there myself :wink: It's certainly a unique atmosphere compared to the rest of the school, that's for sure.

As for the article itself, I don't find it surprising in the least. If you asked these same people what a "calorie" is, or how long it takes the earth to revolve around the sun (365.25 days), the results would be just as dismal. It's not so important that the majority of people understand things, it's important that those who are going to be making key decisions about these things understand them.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Mitchell613 wrote:
meh


Thank you for so succicntly summing up the point of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Who needs the first amendment anyway
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:32 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.
Told of the exact text?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

What about if it is explained to them in terms that they can understand?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:55 pm 
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What? High schoolers not understanding political history and theory? I thought we cancelled all those liberal arts programs in high schools for a reason! Isn't this stuff on standardized tests!? Don't we challenge our children to think independently and not to just memorize dates and names and places?!
WHAT WHAT WHAT???!!!?!?!??!?!?

America's public schools are shamefully bad at truly teaching students.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:07 pm 
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Betterman0986 wrote:
As a high school senior (and at the risk of sounding like an elitist), I can attest to the general ignorance that surrounds me at this level. Simply put, I think many of my peers take liberties for granted because they do not regularly enter their daily lives. As someone with an interest in politics, and more specifically, leftist politics, I am far more aware of the fragility of civil liberties and free speech than those who are concerned solely with who is dating who and who 'talked shit' about who, and, on a more worldly level, what movies are out or what teams are playing. They feel the first amendment is too extreme because they have a limited conception of what it is, and when they find that more and more is guarenteed then previously thought, they are shocked and view it as too much. I've feared for my generation (although I'm sure other generations have seen similar), which is why I was glad that this election at least seemed to get more interest out of more people in the school. Still though, a general conception of government and law eludes the majority who unfortunately don't see it as consequental to their current lives.


Thanks for this, it is exactly how I feel and exactly what I was going to say. I'm lucky enough to be in the IB program and be surrounded by students that share the same knowledge and sense of importance of that knowledge as myself. I honestly don't know what I would do in a mainstream educational environment, without the challenging teachers and information that I've been so priviledged to have.

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 Post subject: Re: Who needs the first amendment anyway
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:14 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."




Quote:
"Schools don't do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don't know the rights it protects," Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. "This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment."


I wonder if these two would find these results as "dangerous" or question the passion for the right to bear arms?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:42 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
What? High schoolers not understanding political history and theory? I thought we cancelled all those liberal arts programs in high schools for a reason! Isn't this stuff on standardized tests!? Don't we challenge our children to think independently and not to just memorize dates and names and places?!
WHAT WHAT WHAT???!!!?!?!??!?!?

America's public schools are shamefully bad at truly teaching students.


We only test math and reading. There's no reason for children to know about civil rights and social studies. That means kids can read that statement:

BUSH IS A PENIS!

but they don't know why it's true.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:44 pm 
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just_b wrote:
BUSH IS A PENIS!


I'm pretty sure Sexual Education is also taught... :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:01 pm 
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IEB! wrote:
just_b wrote:
BUSH IS A PENIS!


I'm pretty sure Sexual Education is also taught... :wink:


...but not tested.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:22 pm 
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IEB! wrote:
just_b wrote:
BUSH IS A PENIS!


I'm pretty sure Sexual Education is also taught... :wink:


Increasingly less here in the south.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:37 pm 
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just_b wrote:
IEB! wrote:
just_b wrote:
BUSH IS A PENIS!


I'm pretty sure Sexual Education is also taught... :wink:


Increasingly less here in the south.


How the teen pregnancy rate doing there these days?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:50 am 
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I'll be damned, it's down!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/102004 ... nancy.html

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:31 pm 
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The results reflected indifference, ...

Apathy kills.

Golly the future looks bright....

.... :roll:


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