I have never been as infuriated as I am after watching this movie. Words are failing me. YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS MOVIE.
If you don't want to watch it, here's the big takeaway: The 2005 Bush/Cheney energy bill EXEMPTED OIL AND GAS DRILLING from the disclosure requirements of the Clean Water Act. When they drill these natural gas wells, they begin by pumping hundreds of chemicals, many of which are known to be toxic, and MANY MORE WHICH ARE COMPLETELY UNKNOWN TO THE PUBLIC, down into the earth and these chemicals, as well as the natural gas itself, inevitably seep into the water table.
Dick Cheney's energy task force created an ABSOLUTE EXEMPTION TO THE CLEAN WATER ACT for oil and gas drilling.
If not fixed, this will eventually affect EVERYONE.
It will be a generation before we can even finish uncovering all of the environmental damage caused by the Bush/Cheney Administration all so that their friends could make MORE money faster.
BTW, this was the same energy bill that we discussed in the oil spill thread that made it so that MMS became a rubber stamp for drilling permits because action was required in 30 days, which of course is not enough time to review the applications.
I didn't think it was possible for me to think that Dick Cheney was any more evil than I already did. I was wrong. He's worse than Hitler. At least Hitler didn't kill his own people for a buck.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
Looking back at the '05 vote, and considering that it was at a time when the GOP had 54 seats in the senate, i thought there were some interesting names that voted for it:
Blanche Lincoln - AR Barbara Boxer - CA Ken Salazar - CO Joe Biden - DE Saxby Chambliss - FL Dick Durbin - IL Barack Obama - IL Evan Bayh - IN Mary Landrieu - LA Edward Kennedy - MA John Kerry - MA Harry Reid - NV Hillary Clinton - NY George Voinovich - OH Patrick Leahy - VT Robert Byrd - WV
as well as those voting against it: John McCain - AZ
and those that didn't vote: Joe Lieberman - CT Chris Dodd - CT
also, in the house Bobby Jindal voted for it, but Dems seemed to be mostly against it.
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
EllisEamos wrote:
Looking back at the '05 vote, and considering that it was at a time when the GOP had 54 seats in the senate, i thought there were some interesting names that voted for it:
It was also the only bill at the time that had anything pro-clean energy innovation, iirc. so it was either vote for the bill and incentivize clean energy or don't get any sort of clean energy support in law. and i find it highly unlikely anyone saw this oil spill coming (whether you can hold that against them or not is one thing, but it is something to keep in mind when passing judgment on the situation).
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
dkfan9 wrote:
EllisEamos wrote:
Looking back at the '05 vote, and considering that it was at a time when the GOP had 54 seats in the senate, i thought there were some interesting names that voted for it:
It was also the only bill at the time that had anything pro-clean energy innovation, iirc. so it was either vote for the bill and incentivize clean energy or don't get any sort of clean energy support in law. and i find it highly unlikely anyone saw this oil spill coming (whether you can hold that against them or not is one thing, but it is something to keep in mind when passing judgment on the situation).
I don't think the oil spill is the issue here, it sounds like it's more that they were allowed to pump toxic chemicals into the ground. That's a problem regardless of whether the oil spill happens.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
I have never been as infuriated as I am after watching this movie. Words are failing me. YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS MOVIE.
If you don't want to watch it, here's the big takeaway: The 2005 Bush/Cheney energy bill EXEMPTED OIL AND GAS DRILLING from the disclosure requirements of the Clean Water Act. When they drill these natural gas wells, they begin by pumping hundreds of chemicals, many of which are known to be toxic, and MANY MORE WHICH ARE COMPLETELY UNKNOWN TO THE PUBLIC, down into the earth and these chemicals, as well as the natural gas itself, inevitably seep into the water table.
Dick Cheney's energy task force created an ABSOLUTE EXEMPTION TO THE CLEAN WATER ACT for oil and gas drilling.
If not fixed, this will eventually affect EVERYONE.
It will be a generation before we can even finish uncovering all of the environmental damage caused by the Bush/Cheney Administration all so that their friends could make MORE money faster.
BTW, this was the same energy bill that we discussed in the oil spill thread that made it so that MMS became a rubber stamp for drilling permits because action was required in 30 days, which of course is not enough time to review the applications.
I didn't think it was possible for me to think that Dick Cheney was any more evil than I already did. I was wrong. He's worse than Hitler. At least Hitler didn't kill his own people for a buck.
I wish you would have been able to sit on a few lectures with me in my, "Contemporary Issues of Energy and the Environmental in Engineering" class. It was the super hippy tree hugger engineering requirement for my "Energy and the Environment" concentration. You'd feel a lot less alarmed about this. I'm pretty sure that the assertions you made aren't true. And I KNOW that most of the places where this is done are strictly monitored by state health officials. The process has been done for years, and it's benign. There have been some incidents where people have accused pollution as being from fracking, but nothing has ever been conclusive. In the vast majority of cases fracking leaves no negative foot print. We discussed this, the policies, the political issues, the process at length, primarily because fracking is a huge deal here. Near as I can tell the arguments against are weak at best. Environmental groups always see to it that fracking projects are litigated to the death, and they never end up doing anything other than stalling the process of economic development.
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
EllisEamos wrote:
Looking back at the '05 vote, and considering that it was at a time when the GOP had 54 seats in the senate, i thought there were some interesting names that voted for it:
It was also the only bill at the time that had anything pro-clean energy innovation, iirc. so it was either vote for the bill and incentivize clean energy or don't get any sort of clean energy support in law. and i find it highly unlikely anyone saw this oil spill coming (whether you can hold that against them or not is one thing, but it is something to keep in mind when passing judgment on the situation).
I don't think the oil spill is the issue here, it sounds like it's more that they were allowed to pump toxic chemicals into the ground. That's a problem regardless of whether the oil spill happens.
yeah, definitely. i don't know why i left that out entirely... i guess a pertinent question is: did the congresspeople who voted for it know about these toxic chemicals (assuming the facts are as PD/the movie stated them)? they obviously can't be expected to be perfectly knowledgable about every aspect of every law they put through (not to excuse any and all ignorace, but if one set of facts about one small portion of the bill is not easily available, is it going to be possible for congresspeople to seek out the answers to find them within the time they have to devote to that portion?). did they all even realize this passage was in the bill?
the questions above, if the answers are no, might indicate problems inherent in the system are more to blame than the congresspeople who voted for it.
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Netflixed.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
dkfan9 wrote:
i guess a pertinent question is: did the congresspeople who voted for it know about these toxic chemicals (assuming the facts are as PD/the movie stated them)? they obviously can't be expected to be perfectly knowledgable about every aspect of every law they put through (not to excuse any and all ignorace, but if one set of facts about one small portion of the bill is not easily available, is it going to be possible for congresspeople to seek out the answers to find them within the time they have to devote to that portion?).
One of the primary points of the film is that a) NOBODY knows all of the chemicals used in the fracking process because b) the 2005 law exempted the drilling companies from having to file disclosures as they would normally be required under the Clean Water Act. Many of the chemicals, and their proportions of use (the "recipe", so to speak) are treated as "trade secrets", much like the secret ingredient in Coca-Cola.
Quote:
did they all even realize this passage was in the bill?
As with many small passages in large bills, it's quite likely that many in Congress (most?) had no idea the passage existed, and even if they did had little sense of teh consequences of it.
Quote:
the questions above, if the answers are no, might indicate problems inherent in the system are more to blame than the congresspeople who voted for it.
sorry, but it is their job to know and understand every bill they put their name on. if i sign up for a credit card and see that my interest rate is .000000000001%* isnt it my responsibility to read the fine print that says that is for the first 8 minutes of the card being activated and that after that the intrest rate jacks up to 6754% by the hour, or should i just lay blame elsewhere?
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
Peeps wrote:
sorry, but it is their job to know and understand every bill they put their name on. if i sign up for a credit card and see that my interest rate is .000000000001%* isnt it my responsibility to read the fine print that says that is for the first 8 minutes of the card being activated and that after that the intrest rate jacks up to 6754% by the hour, or should i just lay blame elsewhere?
this is all speculation on my part, but one SLIGHT difference between signing a credit card contract and signing a bill is that it gets voted on at a designated time. considering the GOP had 54 votes it was pretty assured of going through w/ only a few aisle crossers. therefore, it might stand to reason that, as dkfan stated, a lot of these Dems jumped in and made sure they were on record as voting for the only "somewhat green" bill to pass through the halls. rather than get left out of the process as a "no vote" b/c they wanted to read it thoroughly.
it doesn't excuse the fact that they didn't know what they were voting for, but it could explain things.
sorry, but it is their job to know and understand every bill they put their name on. if i sign up for a credit card and see that my interest rate is .000000000001%* isnt it my responsibility to read the fine print that says that is for the first 8 minutes of the card being activated and that after that the intrest rate jacks up to 6754% by the hour, or should i just lay blame elsewhere?
this is all speculation on my part, but one SLIGHT difference between signing a credit card contract and signing a bill is that it gets voted on at a designated time. considering the GOP had 54 votes it was pretty assured of going through w/ only a few aisle crossers. therefore, it might stand to reason that, as dkfan stated, a lot of these Dems jumped in and made sure they were on record as voting for the only "somewhat green" bill to pass through the halls. rather than get left out of the process as a "no vote" b/c they wanted to read it thoroughly.
it doesn't excuse the fact that they didn't know what they were voting for, but it could explain things.
of course it explains things, they just wanted to look like the good guy without fully understanding it
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
Peeps wrote:
EllisEamos wrote:
Peeps wrote:
sorry, but it is their job to know and understand every bill they put their name on. if i sign up for a credit card and see that my interest rate is .000000000001%* isnt it my responsibility to read the fine print that says that is for the first 8 minutes of the card being activated and that after that the intrest rate jacks up to 6754% by the hour, or should i just lay blame elsewhere?
this is all speculation on my part, but one SLIGHT difference between signing a credit card contract and signing a bill is that it gets voted on at a designated time. considering the GOP had 54 votes it was pretty assured of going through w/ only a few aisle crossers. therefore, it might stand to reason that, as dkfan stated, a lot of these Dems jumped in and made sure they were on record as voting for the only "somewhat green" bill to pass through the halls. rather than get left out of the process as a "no vote" b/c they wanted to read it thoroughly.
it doesn't excuse the fact that they didn't know what they were voting for, but it could explain things.
of course it explains things, they just wanted to look like the good guy without fully understanding it
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