Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Up to 17,000 insurgents in Iraq (up from 5,000?)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:46 am 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:36 pm
Posts: 833
Location: Detroit, MI
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/ ... index.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military faces between 13,000 and 17,000 insurgents in Iraq, the large majority of them backers of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and his Baath Party, a senior military official said Tuesday.

Those figures came to light the same day an apparent suicide bombing killed more than 20 people in central Baghdad as they waited in line to apply to be police officers, U.S. and Iraqi officials said.

The bulk of the insurgency is made up of 12,000 to 15,000 Arab Sunni followers of Saddam's party, the official told CNN. The Baath Party was overthrown by a U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

Of those, the source said 5,000 to 7,000 are considered "committed" fighters, with the rest considered "fence-sitters," criminals or "facilitators" who contribute material support or sanctuary to the guerrillas.

The official, who is familiar with the region, said about 500 other fighters have come from other countries to battle the U.S.-led forces in Iraq, while another group of fewer than 1,000 are believed to be followers of Jordanian-born Islamic terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Members of Congress have been pressing senior officers for an assessment of the strength of the insurgency since Iraq's January 30 elections.

At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing last week, Sen. John McCain criticized Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for lacking a readily available estimate of the armed opposition.

"I don't know how you defeat an insurgency unless you have some handle on the number of people that you are facing," the Arizona Republican said.

Told by Myers that some numbers exist but are classified, McCain said, "I think the American people should know the extent of the enemy we are facing."

The numbers are considerably higher than the 5,000 fighters that Gen. John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, estimated in November 2003. The Pentagon cautioned, however, that trends are difficult to track.

The official who provided Tuesday's estimate said the U.S. military believes it killed between 10,000 and 15,000 guerillas in combat last year -- perhaps as many as 3,000 during the November push to retake the western Iraqi city of Falluja from insurgents.

But because others join the insurgency to replace those killed, Pentagon analysts have difficulty matching the current number against previous assessments.

In the wake of the elections, in which Iraqis turned out to vote for a transitional parliament, U.S. commanders expressed hope that Iraqis will rethink their commitment to the insurgency.




A long time ago it was a few hundred "dead-enders" followed by a couple thousand "dead-enders". We've probably killed a couple thousand insurgents... yet now there's 17k more? Spiffy.

_________________
The Confundo Message Board - music, movies, news, sports, sex!

SecondPageMedia - What matters to you, what matters to us.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Up to 17,000 insurgents in Iraq (up from 5,000?)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm
Posts: 20537
Location: The City Of Trees
aerojad wrote:
A long time ago it was a few hundred "dead-enders" followed by a couple thousand "dead-enders". We've probably killed a couple thousand insurgents... yet now there's 17k more? Spiffy.


Yeah, but what surprises me is that this is saying that a grand majority of them are former Saddam loyalists. I would have thought that a lot of them were foreign or recruited by Zarqawi, et al.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:50 am 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:36 pm
Posts: 833
Location: Detroit, MI
ahh yeah, didn't think of that either.

_________________
The Confundo Message Board - music, movies, news, sports, sex!

SecondPageMedia - What matters to you, what matters to us.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Up to 17,000 insurgents in Iraq (up from 5,000?)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 am 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
Green Habit wrote:
aerojad wrote:
A long time ago it was a few hundred "dead-enders" followed by a couple thousand "dead-enders". We've probably killed a couple thousand insurgents... yet now there's 17k more? Spiffy.


Yeah, but what surprises me is that this is saying that a grand majority of them are former Saddam loyalists. I would have thought that a lot of them were foreign or recruited by Zarqawi, et al.


That doesn't surprise me at all. There are clearly foreigners fighting in Iraq, but just imagine 20,000 foreign fighters surrepticiously crossing the border into Iraq over the past year. That's a lot of people, even with Iraq's porous borders. It only makes sense that the vast majority of the fighters were locals. They may not Saddam loyalists necessarily, but they're definitely Iraqis.

--PunkDavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Up to 17,000 insurgents in Iraq (up from 5,000?)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:15 am 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm
Posts: 20537
Location: The City Of Trees
punkdavid wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
aerojad wrote:
A long time ago it was a few hundred "dead-enders" followed by a couple thousand "dead-enders". We've probably killed a couple thousand insurgents... yet now there's 17k more? Spiffy.


Yeah, but what surprises me is that this is saying that a grand majority of them are former Saddam loyalists. I would have thought that a lot of them were foreign or recruited by Zarqawi, et al.


That doesn't surprise me at all. There are clearly foreigners fighting in Iraq, but just imagine 20,000 foreign fighters surrepticiously crossing the border into Iraq over the past year. That's a lot of people, even with Iraq's porous borders. It only makes sense that the vast majority of the fighters were locals. They may not Saddam loyalists necessarily, but they're definitely Iraqis.

--PunkDavid


I think I made that "or" a bit unclear. I was saying I thought they'd be either foreign OR Iraqis recruited by other groups. I'd say a minority of them are foreigners as well, but for some reason I'm guessing that border security isn't exactly perfect in Iraq right now.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Up to 17,000 insurgents in Iraq (up from 5,000?)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:23 am 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
Green Habit wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
aerojad wrote:
A long time ago it was a few hundred "dead-enders" followed by a couple thousand "dead-enders". We've probably killed a couple thousand insurgents... yet now there's 17k more? Spiffy.


Yeah, but what surprises me is that this is saying that a grand majority of them are former Saddam loyalists. I would have thought that a lot of them were foreign or recruited by Zarqawi, et al.


That doesn't surprise me at all. There are clearly foreigners fighting in Iraq, but just imagine 20,000 foreign fighters surrepticiously crossing the border into Iraq over the past year. That's a lot of people, even with Iraq's porous borders. It only makes sense that the vast majority of the fighters were locals. They may not Saddam loyalists necessarily, but they're definitely Iraqis.

--PunkDavid


I think I made that "or" a bit unclear. I was saying I thought they'd be either foreign OR Iraqis recruited by other groups. I'd say a minority of them are foreigners as well, but for some reason I'm guessing that border security isn't exactly perfect in Iraq right now.


Yeah. Not so good.

--Punkdavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:29 am 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:05 pm
Posts: 622
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
I wish the media would stop using the word "insurgents" and use the proper word: terrorists

_________________
original join date: 29 September 2002
darth_vedder wrote:
I hate Pearl Jam and the goddamn 10 club.

Ledbetterman10 wrote:
This place is a cesspool of douchbagery.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:34 am 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am
Posts: 2402
Location: Freedonia
That isn't specific enough as it technically describes both sides.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:43 am 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:05 pm
Posts: 622
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Ozymandias wrote:
That isn't specific enough as it technically describes both sides.


I'm embarrassed for you. :oops:

_________________
original join date: 29 September 2002
darth_vedder wrote:
I hate Pearl Jam and the goddamn 10 club.

Ledbetterman10 wrote:
This place is a cesspool of douchbagery.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:50 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 1727
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
TortureFollowsReward wrote:
I wish the media would stop using the word "insurgents" and use the proper word: terrorists


They don't want to say this, because it'll make it even clearer that Iraq was prior to invasion no grounds for creating terrrorists and now it's a like a factory putting them out in mass. Each civilian killed in collateral damage will create a relative that is hell bent on destroying those who allowed this destruction of their country. Iraq posed no threat to the U.S. and they know this. Iraqi's know they're sittin' on the 2nd largest oil reserve. They know what our country runs on. It's obvious why we've come to Iraq.

_________________
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
-Noam Chomsky


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:53 am 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
Please let's not let this digress into yet another thread where we debate the definition of "terrorist", or argue whether there are more or less "terrorists" in Iraq now than there were before we invaded. These are important issues, but they have been debated TO DEATH many times before here.

Thank you.

--PunkDavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:55 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 1727
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
TortureFollowsReward wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
That isn't specific enough as it technically describes both sides.


I'm embarrassed for you. :oops:


terrorist:
adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon...

Well we do use bombs and guns as a means of political reform. Forcing democracy on every Iraqi with a boot and a gun in there face. We don't allow for a International Criminal Court, because we're afraid of being tried in it. We don't ban land mines or cluster bombs, similar to "known" terrorist states. We can argue America's acts of terrorism and if they fit the specific definition. But killing on mass scales to change a country that did not provoke an attack is IMO terrorism. You can say America can do no harm. And because we help out so many people we're allowed to destroy whatever we want. I disagree.

_________________
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
-Noam Chomsky


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:59 am 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am
Posts: 2402
Location: Freedonia
TortureFollowsReward wrote:
I'm embarrassed for you. :oops:

Because I know how to use a dictionary? Oh, the shame...


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 am 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
Are we done now?

--PunkDavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:08 am 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am
Posts: 2402
Location: Freedonia
Well, it would've been rude of me not to respond, no?


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:09 am 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
:?

--PunkDavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:10 am 
Offline
User avatar
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 YIM  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am
Posts: 3556
Location: Twin Ports
punkdavid wrote:
:li:

--PunkDavid




:shock:

_________________
Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:36 pm
Posts: 833
Location: Detroit, MI
Terrorists / freedom fighters / whatevers, they are still people shooting at and killing our troops, not to mention Iraqis who like the idea of some sort of peace and stability. Whoever they are, their increasing number is very unnerving.

_________________
The Confundo Message Board - music, movies, news, sports, sex!

SecondPageMedia - What matters to you, what matters to us.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Fri Nov 28, 2025 7:44 pm