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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:13 am 
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i'm a member of some sort of guild, but they seem mostly powerless and do little more than offer advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:44 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Im pretty happy about this team.
My favorite part was the school districts that had to close because so many personal days/sick days were taken because the teachers wanted to go demonstrate, you know, blatantly abusing a right that the union got them for selfish and dishonest reasons, significantly impacting their employers and their customers.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:20 pm 
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at least one chevy silverado driver isn't happy about the legislation

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Alex wrote:
at least one chevy silverado driver isn't happy about the legislation



Seriously though, you're pretty amazing at the internet Alex.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
Im pretty happy about this team.
My favorite part was the school districts that had to close because so many personal days/sick days were taken because the teachers wanted to go demonstrate, you know, blatantly abusing a right that the union got them for selfish and dishonest reasons, significantly impacting their employers and their customers.


Priorities, son.

Detriot:

"only 7 percent (of eighth graders) scored highly enough on the department’s National Assessment of Educational Progress test in 2011 to be rated “proficient” or better in reading, only 4 percent scored highly enough to be rated “proficient” or better in math."

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:37 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Im pretty happy about this team.
My favorite part was the school districts that had to close because so many personal days/sick days were taken because the teachers wanted to go demonstrate, you know, blatantly abusing a right that the union got them for selfish and dishonest reasons, significantly impacting their employers and their customers.


Priorities, son.

Detriot:

"only 7 percent (of eighth graders) scored highly enough on the department’s National Assessment of Educational Progress test in 2011 to be rated “proficient” or better in reading, only 4 percent scored highly enough to be rated “proficient” or better in math."



Exactly. To be fair, the state has tried like crazy to help detroit but the city refuses to let them. It's really really sad how that city operates.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
Exactly. To be fair, the state has tried like crazy to help detroit but the city refuses to let them. It's really really sad how that city operates.


Well, to be fair, powerful unions can attract talented teachers to areas they would otherwise avoid.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:54 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Exactly. To be fair, the state has tried like crazy to help detroit but the city refuses to let them. It's really really sad how that city operates.


Well, to be fair, powerful unions can attract talented teachers to areas they would otherwise avoid.



It hasn't worked that way for the last 40 years for Detroit, I doubt that was going to turn around.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:51 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Exactly. To be fair, the state has tried like crazy to help detroit but the city refuses to let them. It's really really sad how that city operates.


Well, to be fair, powerful unions can attract talented teachers to areas they would otherwise avoid.
Just how do you think they can manage this? It's almost as if you think the union is the employer.

Studies have proven time and time again that quality employees go where quality managers are and not the highest pay.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm 
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tyler wrote:
broken iris wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Exactly. To be fair, the state has tried like crazy to help detroit but the city refuses to let them. It's really really sad how that city operates.


Well, to be fair, powerful unions can attract talented teachers to areas they would otherwise avoid.
Just how do you think they can manage this? It's almost as if you think the union is the employer.

Studies have proven time and time again that quality employees go where quality managers are and not the highest pay.



That's one of my favorite parts of this whole thing. On the local radio call in shows, many of the callers calling to talk about this start this call with "I work for the UAW" then proceed to talk about their job with GM, or Ford. They dont even realize they're saying it.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:35 pm 
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tyler wrote:
Just how do you think they can manage this? It's almost as if you think the union is the employer.


I'm not sure how you got that from my post, but some people consider the union a benefit, for example the protestors outside the Michigan capitol building probably do. Benefits can attract employees as much as good managers do.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
Im pretty happy about this team.
My favorite part was the school districts that had to close because so many personal days/sick days were taken because the teachers wanted to go demonstrate, you know, blatantly abusing a right that the union got them for selfish and dishonest reasons, significantly impacting their employers and their customers.
Isn't that pretty much the point of their demonstration--inconveniencing the public so that it realizes what their grievance is all about?


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Im pretty happy about this team.
My favorite part was the school districts that had to close because so many personal days/sick days were taken because the teachers wanted to go demonstrate, you know, blatantly abusing a right that the union got them for selfish and dishonest reasons, significantly impacting their employers and their customers.
Isn't that pretty much the point of their demonstration--inconveniencing the public so that it realizes what their grievance is all about?



I guess. But the problem is that the perception (and problem most people have) about Unions is that they don't care about what they're doing. That they have insane protections that most of us dont have in their work, and can get away with ridiculous things, regardless of what work needs to be done... and then regardless of the work they are paid to do they're skipping out on work to do something self serving. I feel a lot of it (including the stereotypical teamster/UAW looking guy punching the Fox News rep) reinforced a lot of the stereotypes people have about union members.


A lot of the situation bothers me... there was no question that the issue was brought up as retaliation for Proposal 2 being on our november ballot- that proposal would have cemented Union power into the state constitution- after the governor said he has no intention of eliminating collective bargaining... Basically a massive overreach. So the Unions got it on the ballot anyway, so when it failed, it allowed the more aggressive members of the GOP legislature to go on the attack with right to work. I think the Governor wanted to avoid the issue entirely, but the situation became too big to ignore... so the left is complaining about his "lies." when in reality, he was forced into making a decision. He never said he was against Right To Work... he just said he'd rather avoid the issue entirely because it's so divisive.

And that bothers me because, for the most part, this governor has been relatively reasonable in a lot of areas. He's a republican governor who has barely said a word about Gay Marriage or abortion. He has, no question, been business friendly, but really hasn't done anything that was off the deep end. The biggest complaint people had, up to this point, was that he actually started putting income taxes on pensions over 40k a year.

And the same people complaining about the retaliatory nature of how the bill passed, in the next breath are starting to talk about a recall because of the "betrayal." I'm getting absolutely exhausted of the absolutely childish manner in which all politics is becoming- both the official legislative actions (ie the wisc. dems leaving the state to avoid a vote) and just the general electorate. It's not "i'll help you on this, if you help me on that" anymore... it's "if you do something I don't like, im going to try and kill your whole family".

There's no question that this weakens unions, and that was the bulk of the intent, but a lot of the rank and file of people I know in Unions were pretty tired of their dues being used to support a lot of causes they didn't believe in, so while this will weaken the overall power of the unions (ie less dues) I think it will force them to be more responsive to the needs and views of their members, because you can leave the union without leaving your job.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
<snip>... so while this will weaken the overall power of the unions (ie less dues) I think it will force them to be more responsive to the needs and views of their members, because you can leave the union without leaving your job.


I'd like to believe that, but it seems like the current course in politics is to 'fire up the base' when fearing a loss of power, which tends to make people more entrenched in their old dogma versus adapting to the new reality. Good post, BTW.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:28 pm 
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broken iris wrote:
tyler wrote:
Just how do you think they can manage this? It's almost as if you think the union is the employer.


I'm not sure how you got that from my post, but some people consider the union a benefit, for example the protestors outside the Michigan capitol building probably do. Benefits can attract employees as much as good managers do.

Sorry, I didn't think of it from that perspective. My personal experience is that I don't know a single professional in a union who's happy with being made to belong. I can't imagine any professional wanting take a job because it included union participation and dues.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:41 pm 
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I am in a union, and I have a much much much better contract, job security, and working conditions for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:03 pm 
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stip wrote:
I am in a union, and I have a much much much better contract, job security, and working conditions for it.

but isnt it also true that you are lazy and hate children?

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 Post subject: Re: Are you part of a Trade Union?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:04 pm 
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so thank god for my union, then!

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