Post subject: Tillman family criticize Army's friendly-fire probe
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:34 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:46 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Medford, Oregon Gender: Male
Tillman family criticize Army's friendly-fire probe
Mon May 23, 6:20 AM ET
The parents of Army Ranger Pat Tillman are frustrated and angry over the military's investigations into the former professional football player's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan in 2004, The Washington Post reported on Monday.
A report by Brig Gen. Gary Jones of the Army Special Operations Command found that the U.S. Army determined within days of his death that Tillman had been killed mistakenly by fellow Rangers but did not tell his family or the public for weeks and even destroyed evidence.
In separate interviews, Tillman's parents, who are divorced, said they are do not believe they will ever get the full story, the newspaper reported.
Pat Tillman walked away from a $3.6 million contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to sign up as an elite Army ranger, along with his brother, in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He was hailed as a hero and a role model.
The Army's initial public account of Tillman's death on April 22, 2004, in a remote canyon near the Pakistani border indicated he had been slain by enemy fire during an ambush.
"The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting," Mary Tillman told the newspaper.
Patrick Tillman Sr. blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public, The Washington Post said.
"They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy," said Tillman, a San Jose, Calif. lawyer.
Army officials said on Friday that the Army "reaffirms its heartfelt sorrow to the Tillman family and all families who have lost loved ones during this war," The Post reported.
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As horrible as it must be to have your child killed in war, to have your government lie about it as a PR move must make it feel even worse. They are not alone in their anger and frustration in all of this.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
I think it would fruitful for all of us to go back to last spring and re-read the extremely heated and often nasty threads in this forum about Pat Tillman, and see how we feel about that stuff in the context of these new revelations.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:14 am Posts: 8662 Location: IL
punkdavid wrote:
I think it would fruitful for all of us to go back to last spring and re-read the extremely heated and often nasty threads in this forum about Pat Tillman, and see how we feel about that stuff in the context of these new revelations.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
aerojad wrote:
the initial hero-worship over Tillman will be far larger than any news of this coverup... that's the way using the media works
on April 29, 2004, punkdavid wrote:
I'll tell you what my first reaction was to Pat Tillman's death. I thought, "Oh, Jesus, this guy is going to be the new poster-child for the war in Iraq. A rich FOOTBALL PLAYER, who gave it all up to serve his country, and defend freedom in a far off land is killed and becomes a twisted kind of martyr, the kind of which only an American could conceive. This is going to be a total jerk-off for the NFL and the Republican Party right through to the election." This may still come to pass, and if it does, I will be offended.
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
punkdavid wrote:
aerojad wrote:
the initial hero-worship over Tillman will be far larger than any news of this coverup... that's the way using the media works
on April 29, 2004, punkdavid wrote:
I'll tell you what my first reaction was to Pat Tillman's death. I thought, "Oh, Jesus, this guy is going to be the new poster-child for the war in Iraq. A rich FOOTBALL PLAYER, who gave it all up to serve his country, and defend freedom in a far off land is killed and becomes a twisted kind of martyr, the kind of which only an American could conceive. This is going to be a total jerk-off for the NFL and the Republican Party right through to the election." This may still come to pass, and if it does, I will be offended.
I can't find anything by me in that thread me= formerly known as Insignificant. Damn shame I can't be as cool as Punk David.
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:36 pm Posts: 833 Location: Detroit, MI
punkdavid wrote:
aerojad wrote:
the initial hero-worship over Tillman will be far larger than any news of this coverup... that's the way using the media works
on April 29, 2004, punkdavid wrote:
I'll tell you what my first reaction was to Pat Tillman's death. I thought, "Oh, Jesus, this guy is going to be the new poster-child for the war in Iraq. A rich FOOTBALL PLAYER, who gave it all up to serve his country, and defend freedom in a far off land is killed and becomes a twisted kind of martyr, the kind of which only an American could conceive. This is going to be a total jerk-off for the NFL and the Republican Party right through to the election." This may still come to pass, and if it does, I will be offended.
It would appear you were just as smart back then as you are now
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Quote:
Army to launch criminal investigation into Pat Tillman case By Bill Nichols, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff promised the family of slain pro football star Pat Tillman on Sunday that a new criminal investigation will provide a "complete picture" of the circumstances surrounding his death while serving in the Army in Afghanistan in 2004. (Related 2004 column: Tillman's gone but legacy everlasting)
Former Cardinals safety Pat Tillman was killed in the line of duty nearly two years ago.
Gen. Peter Pace, on NBC's Meet The Press, said investigators want to determine whether Tillman was killed by U.S. soldiers' fire "that should have been going on, or was someone potentially firing a weapon when they should not have been?"
"Although there's no evidence that there was criminal activity, the investigators did not specifically look at whether or not there was criminal activity, criminal activity being when Cpl. Tillman was killed by friendly fire," Pace said continued.
Four previous Army reviews have concluded that Tillman, 27, was shot accidentally by members of his own Rangers unit on April 22, 2004.
A Pentagon official told The Associated Press on Saturday that a criminal investigation would focus on possible charges of negligent homicide. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the new investigation had not formally begun.
Tillman got national attention when he walked away from a lucrative football contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army in 2002.
His mother and father have criticized the investigation into their son's death, including the Army's decision to wait five weeks to reveal that he died from "friendly fire."
The Army initially reported that Tillman, who was in the Army's 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, had been killed during an assault against Taliban fighters. The Army later said members of Tillman's own unit shot him when he rounded a corner in his Humvee and was mistaken for an enemy.
Tillman's parents have questioned why his uniform and body armor were burned the day after he was killed and whether other critical pieces of evidence were destroyed.
His parents, Patrick Tillman Sr. and Mary Tillman, could not be reached for comment. "It's another step," Tillman's father told The Washington Post. "But if you send investigators to reinvestigate an investigation that was falsified in the first place, what do you think you're going to get?"
Tillman's mother, Mary, told the Post Saturday that the criminal investigation should have been launched at the onset. "The military has had every opportunity to do the right thing and they haven't," she said. "They knew all along that something was seriously wrong and they just wanted to cover it up."
The new investigation was ordered by the Defense Department inspector general after a review that was launched in August.
A May 2004 report from Brig. Gen. Gary Jones had already concluded that top Army brass knew within days of Tillman's death that it had been caused by an act of "gross negligence."
Tillman's brother Kevin, a Ranger in the same unit who was nearby when the incident took place, also was not immediately told how he died. Army spokesman Paul Boyce said Kevin Tillman left the Army last summer.
The scope of the new investigation by the Army Criminal Investigation Command had not yet been determined in detail, Army spokesman Col. Joseph Curtin said Saturday. Curtin said the inspector general's office reviewed the matter at the Army's request and concluded a criminal probe was warranted.
Pace responded only indirectly when asked whether Tillman's case, which will now undergo a fifth formal investigation, had been mishandled. "Folks look at them to make sure they have complete information," he said on Fox News Sunday. "If there's not complete information, they send it back."
"We are obligated to answer the family's questions, as we are with all grieving families," Curtin said.
Contributing: Billy House, Gannett News Service, wire reports
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:39 pm Posts: 282 Location: Pembroke NY
In all honesty,
This guy was a hero,
but so is every single enlisted personel in the armed forces, they all put the same risk in (their lives), and sometimes, they sacrifice them, Pat just gave up more than the typical soldier, who is like me and drives a jalopy...
It really shouldn't be glorified like it is because he didn't do anything different from anyone else, but he did sacrifice more,...
And likewise, his sacrifice should not be marred simply because of it's publicity...
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:52 pm Posts: 1727 Location: Earth Gender: Male
Ex-Lineman Follows in Tillman's Footsteps By DAISY NGUYEN
Associated Press Writer
SAN DIEGO (AP) -- A former college teammate of Pat Tillman is following in his footsteps, leaving a career in professional football to join the military.
Pfc. Jeremy Staat, a former defensive lineman who played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and the St. Louis Rams, graduated from the San Diego Marine Corps Recruit Depot on Friday.
Enlisting "is probably one of the best decisions I've made in my life," Staat, 29, told The Associated Press after the ceremony.
Tillman, who played defensive back for the Arizona Cardinals, was killed by friendly fire near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in April 2004. The Defense Department is investigating allegations of a cover-up, including the Army's failure to tell Tillman's family for several weeks that he had been killed by gunfire from his fellow Army Rangers, not by enemy fire as they initially were told.
Staat said he was felt compelled to join the military after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks but Tillman, who was his roommate at Arizona State, advised him to stay with professional football until he qualified for retirement benefits.
"He told me, 'You're a good player, you need to get good play.' Then four months later, at his wedding, I learn he's going to the Army," Staat said. "I joked to him, 'You stole my idea,' and he said it had been in the process for a while."
Tillman's death gave him "more motivation" to enlist, Staat said. "I should have been there for him."
Tillman gave up a $1.2 million NFL contract to join the Army Rangers.
Staat played for the Steelers from 1998 to 2000, and played two games with the Rams in 2003. He was playing for the Los Angeles Avengers of the Arena Football League before being put on the league's suspended list.
"I never felt right about making the money I was making," he said. "We pay millions of dollars to professional athletes and entertainers, yet we pay military service people pennies to a dollar, and they're the ones risking their lives."
To enlist, the 6-foot-5 player said he dropped from 310 to 260 pounds. He said three months of boot camp training gave him a deeper appreciation for team camaraderie.
"It's about looking out for your fellow soldier, and being ready to take a bullet for someone," he said.
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:36 am Posts: 5458 Location: Left field
My brother and I got into a fairly heated debate about the Tillman situation this past week. He, being my brother, wants to do nothing but heap bails of praise upon the man. I don’t disagree with that but I think once a man starts a family, he should ignore his personal goals and start developing goals that involve his whole family, as in the guy left his wife and children to follow some personal goal that left his family in the cold, metaphorically speaking of course. I may catch some flack for this but the guy was in his late twenties…I don’t know, I think it was foolish, and wasteful.
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punkdavid wrote:
aerojad wrote:
the initial hero-worship over Tillman will be far larger than any news of this coverup... that's the way using the media works
on April 29, 2004, punkdavid wrote:
I'll tell you what my first reaction was to Pat Tillman's death. I thought, "Oh, Jesus, this guy is going to be the new poster-child for the war in Iraq. A rich FOOTBALL PLAYER, who gave it all up to serve his country, and defend freedom in a far off land is killed and becomes a twisted kind of martyr, the kind of which only an American could conceive. This is going to be a total jerk-off for the NFL and the Republican Party right through to the election." This may still come to pass, and if it does, I will be offended.
awesome post
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I find it funny that people who are pro bush/ pro right wing always bring this issue of whether or not someone is a hero or whether you support the troops. That is not the arguement. unless you are part of the mentally challenged, we all agree that they are heroes and supported.
If the army has to cover up one guy's death to keep enlistment up, then the proof that we are stuggling with a war on terror is pretty obvious. This army from the top down is just ripe with incompetence. Giving contracts out to company's who can't keep the water clean for these guys, using company's who can't fulfill the demand for flak jackets, a secretary of defense who refuses to acknowledge a civil war is under way, a president who screams out military use for Iran and N. Korea as viable options when there are already two fronts openned up. I think it was known at the collapse of the berlin wall that this country was not interested in being able to fight a two front war, yet here we are.
However, one NFL player in the war should be talked about in much more depth, cover up or not, than the more important questions.
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