Post subject: Re: How is there not a Libya thread?
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:30 pm
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
broken iris wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
(or back in time, support for coups and guerrillas around the world).
I disagree. Those actions will be judged in hindsight with shifted moral norms and out of context. We (the public) will never know even a fraction of the intelligence and decision making inputs that lead to those situations and it end in the same type of politically driven monday morning quarterbacking that we see all over the media today.
In almost all these situations, there is going to be some broad, easily explainable rationale. For Cold War coups, the reason was to keep communists out of power in certain countries considered strategically important. The public should certainly have a say in whether our government should pursue certain ends (in this case, keeping communists out of power). The public should also have a say in what means are acceptable towards those ends (in this case, overthrowing sometimes democratically elected governments for fear they'll ally with Soviets or fall under Soviet control).
And also, your point about hindsight and shifting norms applies to all of history, not just covert ops, so I'm not sure how it works as an argument against democratic oversight of our government's actions around the world. I agree though: you do have to take context into account when judging history.
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Post subject: Re: How is there not a Libya thread?
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:21 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:57 pm Posts: 3332 Location: Chicago-ish
dkfan9 wrote:
Rebar wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Rebar wrote:
I disagree. If we disclosed intelligence to the media/public, even after it happened, then we risk giving away tactics/sources etc. for future operations or intelligence gathering. This Benghazi thing is a mess all around though, so it may not be a good example to have this discussion over. Sure it's ok to disclose why we think the attack happened, but how we came about the information is not important for the general public to know.
Oh yeah, I agree with that. I'm thinking more along the lines of drone strikes (or back in time, support for coups and guerrillas around the world).
Yes, I'm fine with that. My mistake on conveyance. I was just referring to some methods we use. And I only brought it up because I've seen on some news networks people claiming that kind of thing should be made public.
Post subject: Re: How is there not a Libya thread?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:54 am
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
homersheineken wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Rebar wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Rebar wrote:
I disagree. If we disclosed intelligence to the media/public, even after it happened, then we risk giving away tactics/sources etc. for future operations or intelligence gathering. This Benghazi thing is a mess all around though, so it may not be a good example to have this discussion over. Sure it's ok to disclose why we think the attack happened, but how we came about the information is not important for the general public to know.
Oh yeah, I agree with that. I'm thinking more along the lines of drone strikes (or back in time, support for coups and guerrillas around the world).
Yes, I'm fine with that. My mistake on conveyance. I was just referring to some methods we use. And I only brought it up because I've seen on some news networks people claiming that kind of thing should be made public.
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