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RM You be the judge!!
Guilty 33%  33%  [ 8 ]
Not guilty 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
It was the maid 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
It's always the maid 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
It was probably Luke 50%  50%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 24
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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:23 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
uglyduckling wrote:
Man, I still don't know. I think it's probably just as easy that someone threw money at her to set up the situation. I'm not a conspiracy theory type, but seriously this seems all too weird. All of those details you listed could easily be exacted by some poor immigrant who is in need of money.

DSK could be banging chicks left and right, escorts of all kinds. The idea that he goes after some African maid is just too fucking weird, given his career, status, wealth, etc.


If it was a setup, he'd still have to want to have sex with a 33 year old Nigerian immigrant who was cleaning his hotel room. That seems awfully 9-11 conspiracy kind of thing to me.

Have you seen Wienergate? Famous/powerful man do very, very, strange things.

I don't think a setup is particularly far fetched at all. I mean, I'm not sold on the idea, but I'm also unconvinced DSK raped some African. First of all, how do you force oral sex? I mean, anything is possible - but I'd likely use my teeth. Heh.

Also, lots of men will fuck anything. So if this girl came on to him, no matter what she looked like...free sex at his age? Unlikely he's going to turn it down.


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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:43 pm 
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uglyduckling wrote:
given2trade wrote:
uglyduckling wrote:
Man, I still don't know. I think it's probably just as easy that someone threw money at her to set up the situation. I'm not a conspiracy theory type, but seriously this seems all too weird. All of those details you listed could easily be exacted by some poor immigrant who is in need of money.

DSK could be banging chicks left and right, escorts of all kinds. The idea that he goes after some African maid is just too fucking weird, given his career, status, wealth, etc.


If it was a setup, he'd still have to want to have sex with a 33 year old Nigerian immigrant who was cleaning his hotel room. That seems awfully 9-11 conspiracy kind of thing to me.

Have you seen Wienergate? Famous/powerful man do very, very, strange things.

I don't think a setup is particularly far fetched at all. I mean, I'm not sold on the idea, but I'm also unconvinced DSK raped some African. First of all, how do you force oral sex? I mean, anything is possible - but I'd likely use my teeth. Heh.

Also, lots of men will fuck anything. So if this girl came on to him, no matter what she looked like...free sex at his age? Unlikely he's going to turn it down.


I agree the forced oral sex thing is very odd to me. Re: setup, again, I just ask what is more likely? That it's an elaborate setup that has fooled the entire NY prosecutors office or that it's simple rape? If she really wanted to set him up, wouldn't she just have vaginal sex with him so there would be DNA evidence? Shit, she could even have rough vaginal sex with him just to make it look like there was force. Did he reject vaginal sex but say "oh ok, you can blow me if you want"? I just think if it was a setup there are lots of easier ways to set him up. Also, how exactly do you get to a 34 year old nigerian immigrant who is a maid in a hotel to ask her to blow some guy, then accuse him of rape, for money? This isn't some girl who walked up to him in a bar and engaged him. They would of had to have asked/found a willing employee of the hotel that had access/reason to go into the room for something other than sex. She would have also had to be assigned to clean his room. Do you know how unlikely all of that is?

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Again, not sold on the conspiracy theory, it's just a passing thought. One that I doubt is as difficult as you make it out to be. Nearly anything in politics is achievable, and hardly far fetched. Especially when you're talking political sex scandals. Politics is filthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:55 pm 
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uglyduckling wrote:
Again, not sold on the conspiracy theory, it's just a passing thought. One that I doubt is as difficult as you make it out to be. Nearly anything in politics is achievable, and hardly far fetched. Especially when you're talking political sex scandals. Politics is filthy.


This isn't a sex scandal, it's accused rape. This has happened how many times in US politics? I can't think of one that ever made it to indictment let alone a trial.

Here is some history on DSK, according to the world famous USA TODAY:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/201 ... file_n.htm

Quote:
He's previously been painted as an unwanted aggressor.

In 2008, Aurelie Filippetti, a French lawmaker and Socialist Party member, told Swiss newspaper Le Temps she once had to fend off a "very heavy, very high-pressure" come-on from Strauss-Kahn. "I made it a point to not find myself alone with him in a closed place," Filippetti told the newspaper.

Tristane Banon, a 31-year-old French journalist and writer, publicly claimed that Strauss-Kahn tried to rape her when she went to interview him in 2002. Banon did not disclose the alleged attack at the time. But after the New York allegations, her attorney said she would likely file a legal complaint after the new case is resolved.

Months after taking up his IMF post in late 2007, Strauss-Kahn launched a brief affair with Piroska Nagy, a married, Hungarian-born economist who worked for the organization. The IMF board hired an outside law firm to investigate after the affair became public knowledge.

The board found Strauss-Kahn responsible for what he admitted had been "a serious error of judgment." But the board concluded "there was no harassment, favoritism or any other abuse of authority," so he kept his job.

The outcome didn't square with the account of Nagy, who wrote to the board that "I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't" accede to Strauss-Kahn's advances. She also wrote that he was "a man with a problem that may make him ill-equipped to lead an institution where women work under his command."

Sexus Politicus, a 2006 tell-all book by Christophe Dubois and Christophe Deloire, included a chapter on Strauss-Kahn's private life that depicted him as taking unnecessary sexual risks for a high public official. Deloire said a lawyer representing Strauss-Kahn read the chapter and tried to prevent publication with the threat of a libel action.
"But the book came out and they did nothing," said Deloire in an interview last week.

When Strauss-Kahn was nominated for the IMF post, Jean Quatremer of French daily newspaper Libération wrote on his blog: "Strauss-Kahn's only real problem is his behavior with women. Too pushy, he often narrowly escapes (charges) of harassment. This fault of his is well-known by the media, but no one speaks about it."

In an interview last week, Quatremer said he witnessed the surprise of a female journalist friend during the late 1990s when Strauss-Kahn offered her his mobile phone number and a dinner invitation to the economic ministry. "His intentions were so clear that the woman was in shock," Quatremer said.


This isn't a sex scandal. It is highly implausable that this is all a conspiracy. I think conspiracy theorists don't give the police and DA enough credit. This isn't some regular schmo they are accusing of rape but a very powerful French politician. The international fallout from accusing let alone convicting someone of his stature w/o a mountain of evidence would be humungous. It would be like jailing and revoking John McCain's passport in 2007 on the account of some poor maid in France. They would need a lot more evidence than "she said".

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:44 am 
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I'm with Matty on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:53 am 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
I'm with Matty on this one.


I love it when we agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:57 am 
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Also, if it was a setup, when she hit him and he bled all over the bed, why didn't he go right to the police? Why didn't he run out of the hotel room and say "whoa this chick just blew me and then hit me with a sharp object, I'd like to file a complaint". Instead, he fled the scene as quickly as possible leaving his cell phone behind.

How often do you think chamber maids go into hotel rooms to clean the room and end up consensually blowing a random patron that they have never met before? Further, how often does this happen where there is blood involved, physical lacerations to the patron, and semen on the carpet?

If it's a setup, hats off to the guys that pulled this one off! Probably the same people who helped forge Obama's birth certificate.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:57 am 
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double post

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Last edited by given2trade on Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:29 am 
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given2trade wrote:
Also, if it was a setup, when she hit him and he bled all over the bed, why didn't he go right to the police? Why didn't he run out of the hotel room and say "whoa this chick just blew me and then hit me with a sharp object, I'd like to file a complaint". Instead, he fled the scene as quickly as possible leaving his cell phone behind.

How often do you think chamber maids go into hotel rooms to clean the room and end up consensually blowing a random patron that they have never met before? Further, how often does this happen where there is blood involved, physical lacerations to the patron, and semen on the carpet?

If it's a setup, hats off to the guys that pulled this one off! Probably the same people who helped forge Obama's birth certificate.

Whoa there, buddy. I'm saying it's in the realm of possibility, and it's also not half as insane as you make it out to be. Dirty politics is not shocking.

This is no where along the lines of the birther shit, not even a good comparison. I'm not even saying I'm totally sold on the idea. I am saying that your exaggeration about the 'impossibility' of it is kind of ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:14 am 
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uglyduckling wrote:
given2trade wrote:
Also, if it was a setup, when she hit him and he bled all over the bed, why didn't he go right to the police? Why didn't he run out of the hotel room and say "whoa this chick just blew me and then hit me with a sharp object, I'd like to file a complaint". Instead, he fled the scene as quickly as possible leaving his cell phone behind.

How often do you think chamber maids go into hotel rooms to clean the room and end up consensually blowing a random patron that they have never met before? Further, how often does this happen where there is blood involved, physical lacerations to the patron, and semen on the carpet?

If it's a setup, hats off to the guys that pulled this one off! Probably the same people who helped forge Obama's birth certificate.

Whoa there, buddy. I'm saying it's in the realm of possibility, and it's also not half as insane as you make it out to be. Dirty politics is not shocking.

This is no where along the lines of the birther shit, not even a good comparison. I'm not even saying I'm totally sold on the idea. I am saying that your exaggeration about the 'impossibility' of it is kind of ridiculous.


I'm saying anything is possible. I'm saying it's highly unlikely, like less than 1% chance. I do feel like people claiming conspiracy are a bit like 9-11 truthers. Find me a single time there been a conspiracy with a high level politician in recent memory? People thought the Clinton's killed all sorts of people yet nothing ever came of it despite 10s of millions in legal fees. It's way more likely that she made it up to make money than it is that this was an orchestrated conspiracy to keep him from becoming president of France or to remove him from the head of the IMF. The conspiracy stuff makes me lol, I'm sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:39 am 
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Heh. Now I realize why people haven't engaged you in this topic, Matt.

We're not talking about killing people. We're actually talking about a sex scandal. I'm the first person to take rape seriously. But recognizing who this guy is, the amount of power (and money) he has, it's not such a huge stretch. People (especially poor people) can be bought off for ridiculously low amounts of money. Politics in Europe is equally if not more dirty than the US. I think it's well within the realm of possibility, but AGAIN, I'm not sold one way or the other. I think it's fishy, that's about all I can commit to.

High level politicians in what country? In the US? There are sex scandals and shit going on all around us, but not quite like this one, I'll give you that. If you're asking me to reference straight up dirty politics that has been well executed and dirty (killing people included - not necessarily a sex scandal) - Pinochet? I don't know exactly what you're looking for here.

I definitely find it almost offensive that you compare someone recognizing a possibility that the charges against DSK are a set up, as similar to a being a birther. Guess that's where the debate ends. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:26 am 
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uglyduckling wrote:
Heh. Now I realize why people haven't engaged you in this topic, Matt.

We're not talking about killing people. We're actually talking about a sex scandal. I'm the first person to take rape seriously. But recognizing who this guy is, the amount of power (and money) he has, it's not such a huge stretch. People (especially poor people) can be bought off for ridiculously low amounts of money. Politics in Europe is equally if not more dirty than the US. I think it's well within the realm of possibility, but AGAIN, I'm not sold one way or the other. I think it's fishy, that's about all I can commit to.

High level politicians in what country? In the US? There are sex scandals and shit going on all around us, but not quite like this one, I'll give you that. If you're asking me to reference straight up dirty politics that has been well executed and dirty (killing people included - not necessarily a sex scandal) - Pinochet? I don't know exactly what you're looking for here.

I definitely find it almost offensive that you compare someone recognizing a possibility that the charges against DSK are a set up, as similar to a being a birther. Guess that's where the debate ends. Cheers.




They will mock you if you refuse to swallow everything you're being fed. Obviously i still don't know what happened, but G2T does, so it's all good.


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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:17 pm 
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There is no reason to take it personally, Kam. I just find it preposterous that there is a conspiracy here. I have outlined all the reasons which go much deeper than "it's easy to bribe a poor maid". I'm not terribly familiar with Pinochet but I'm fairly certain he wasn't indicted in New York City. Also, this isn't a sex scandal. It's rape. It would be rather easy to set up a sex scandal, I agree. For all of the evidence and circumstance here, I think it would be damn near impossible to orchestrate this.

The reason nobody has engaged me on this is because everyone (according to the poll) thinks he's guilty except Patrick Bateman who likes to argue with everybody on everything.

Again, no reason to take it personally! Just having fun in a thread about a case I am really curious about.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Actually, according to the poll, more people think your dog did it.

It's not rape, it's an accusation of rape.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Beef wrote:
Actually, according to the poll, more people think your dog did it.

It's not rape, it's an accusation of rape.


That's true (the first part). What do you mean about the second part? That he hasn't been convicted yet or that he never actually raped her, just attempted to rape her? I don't think it's possible to setup the conspiracy to put all the physical evidence in place to accuse rape, is my point. That coupled with everything else I said (bribing THE chamber maid that cleans his room, having him agree to want to have sex with her, etc.)

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:32 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
Beef wrote:
Actually, according to the poll, more people think your dog did it.

It's not rape, it's an accusation of rape.


That's true (the first part). What do you mean about the second part? That he hasn't been convicted yet or that he never actually raped her, just attempted to rape her? I don't think it's possible to setup the conspiracy to put all the physical evidence in place to accuse rape, is my point. That coupled with everything else I said (bribing THE chamber maid that cleans his room, having him agree to want to have sex with her, etc.)

That he hasn't been convicted yet. I could accuse you of rape, it doesn't mean there was one. Only the two people in that room know what really happened regardless of the evidence that's been made public... evidence which has seemingly been deliberately leaked to the media.

I think you're over thinking the idea of the set up. By all accounts this is a powerful and relatively arrogant man who is sexually aggressive towards women. He's in his hotel room, a maid enters, comes onto him, offers to blow him and you know he's going to accept. How hard is it for her to scratch his back, spit his load out on the floor and leave the room claiming he forced her to perform oral sex on him?

The evidence you keep holding up to validate your opinion may very well be exactly as reported by the media but at this point, we simply do not know. The media, despite what we'd like to believe sometimes, are not known for being factual or unbiased. The fact that a lot of what is being reported is being leaked by the DA's office demonstrates that they have an agenda. If not, surely lips would be sealed tightly shut out of fear of jeopardising the case.

It's an interesting situation but not one that I believe to be as cut and dry as you've presented here.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Beef wrote:
given2trade wrote:
Beef wrote:
Actually, according to the poll, more people think your dog did it.

It's not rape, it's an accusation of rape.


That's true (the first part). What do you mean about the second part? That he hasn't been convicted yet or that he never actually raped her, just attempted to rape her? I don't think it's possible to setup the conspiracy to put all the physical evidence in place to accuse rape, is my point. That coupled with everything else I said (bribing THE chamber maid that cleans his room, having him agree to want to have sex with her, etc.)

That he hasn't been convicted yet. I could accuse you of rape, it doesn't mean there was one. Only the two people in that room know what really happened regardless of the evidence that's been made public... evidence which has seemingly been deliberately leaked to the media.

I think you're over thinking the idea of the set up. By all accounts this is a powerful and relatively arrogant man who is sexually aggressive towards women. He's in his hotel room, a maid enters, comes onto him, offers to blow him and you know he's going to accept. How hard is it for her to scratch his back, spit his load out on the floor and leave the room claiming he forced her to perform oral sex on him?

The evidence you keep holding up to validate your opinion may very well be exactly as reported by the media but at this point, we simply do not know. The media, despite what we'd like to believe sometimes, are not known for being factual or unbiased. The fact that a lot of what is being reported is being leaked by the DA's office demonstrates that they have an agenda. If not, lips would be sealed shut out of fear of jeopardising the case.

It's an interesting situation but not one that I believe to be as cut and dry as you've presented here.


Or, it could be absolutely cut and dry like I'm presenting it and the fact that there hasn't been an alternative presented/leaked by DSK besides "it was consensual" could be evidence of that.

I agree the leaks are disconcerting but there are dozens of people that have been working on the case, who knows who is leaking what.

I find it odd that both you and Kam think any mouth that is put in front of his face he's going to want to stick his dick in, at any time during the day. I also find it odd that it's easy to see how at 1 PM in the middle of the day, she went in to clean his room, knew he'd be there, got him to have consensual sex with her, then immediately claimed rape. Like I said a few pages ago, what's more plausible?

Re: accused of rape vs. convicted, I've covered this a bunch of times in this thread. O.J. is guilty of murder, regardless of what the criminal system says. It's far from perfect.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Yes, it could be exactly as you've presented it. As I said, at this point, we simply don't know.

To be honest, I'm not at all surprised that there hasn't been an alternative presented/leaked by DSK and I'm sure you wouldn't be either if you thought about it. Why would you show your hand to the DA? They're preparing a defence and we will see it in court. Releasing anything else before then would be an idiotic move. I'd hope his lawyers were smarter than that.

And I don't think either myself or Kam (though I can't and won't speak for her) are convinced that he would put his dick into any mouth presented to him. I just don't see it outside of the realm of possibility regardless of what time of day it was.

I'm not sure why you're so incredulous about alternative possibilities or scenarios. Is it really that hard for a maid to observe the movements of a high profile guest? To know that he would be in the room at the time? Being that he is a powerful and supposedly charismatic man, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out he gets offered blow jobs and accepts them on a regular basis.

I actually find it's much easier to believe that he was set up and approached with a sexual offer that he accepted only for her to cry that something untoward happened than that a man, in his position, with so much to lose would do something this stupid. It's not outside of the possibility that he forced her to perform oral sex but equally, it's not outside the possibility that it was a set up.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:08 pm 
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I actually find it's much easier to believe that he was set up and approached with a sexual offer that he accepted only for her to cry that something untoward happened than that a man, in his position, with so much to lose would do something this stupid. It's not outside of the possibility that he forced her to perform oral sex but equally, it's not outside the possibility that it was a set up.


Really? Haven't we seen powerful men do stupid thing after stupid thing? I don't find this so hard to believe at all.

RE: Leaking his side of the case, if the evidence of setup/consensual sex is so strong, there is no thing that's going to "tip off" the DA if it's leaked. You could say the same thing about the DA leaking evidence as well, that it shows their hand to the defense.

And I didn't say it couldn't have been a setup. I just put it at less than 1% given all the things that would of had to happen to pull it off. I'm a cynic by nature but this is a bit too much for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape charges
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:12 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
Quote:
I actually find it's much easier to believe that he was set up and approached with a sexual offer that he accepted only for her to cry that something untoward happened than that a man, in his position, with so much to lose would do something this stupid. It's not outside of the possibility that he forced her to perform oral sex but equally, it's not outside the possibility that it was a set up.


Really? Haven't we seen powerful men do stupid thing after stupid thing? I don't find this so hard to believe at all.

Oh, for sure but for almost every case of a powerful man doing a stupid thing, there's been a case of a woman using sex to bribe/blackmail/whatever.

Shrug.

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