Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Disagree. If Zimmerman's story is true that means he was getting his head smashed against a sidewalk. I can kill a man twice my size if I'm able to repeatedly bash his head against pavement.
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:02 am Posts: 91597 Location: Sector 7-G
mastaflatch wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Disagree. If Zimmerman's story is true that means he was getting his head smashed against a sidewalk. I can kill a man twice my size if I'm able to repeatedly bash his head against pavement.
prove it.
How much do you weigh?
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
4/5 wrote:
¡B! wrote:
I'm not happy that this dude thought to turn his Neighborhood Watch shift into vigilante justice, but following someone isn't reason for a beat down. If that story is true, and frankly, there's a lot of holes in it, than Trayvon sealed his fate when he decided a fight was better than just getting his ass back to the safety of his home.
Well, let's say Zimmerman's story is completely true. The SYG law states that a person has the right to defend his self when he "reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” This guy was bloodied, but wasn't hurt enough to require any further medical attention. He had near a hundred pounds on the kid (I only have heard this from the protests, so it could very well be false), so I find it hard to believe that shooting the kid was the only way to get the kid to stop punching him (and to save his life or prevent great bodily harm). The two Republican state senators who wrote the law and the present and former governors of Florida have all said that the SYG law doesn't apply to Zimmerman.
I have no idea what really happened, and frankly all the hype from both sides is obnoxious, I just find it foolish when people imply that this kid "sealed his fate" or in some way deserved what he got. Those comments are as empty and meaningless to me as the angelic portraits that others are painting of him.
He might have had a hundred pounds on the kid, but the kid was younger, taller and in good shape. A guy 5'9" 240 is not in the best of shape. The weight difference in this situation is hardly an advantage.
and for the record, I don't have any problem with the way the family is portraying the situation. They lost their son... the issue is with the reporting. The news should not just be showing a happy smiling prepubescent 12 year old as the only representation of who was killed. The news should not be representing him as white. Up until today the story has felt very one sided.
WHITE MAN IN GATED COMMUNITY GUNS DOWN BLACK CHILD is a misleading presentation of the facts. As the story grew, Zimmerman has become a pariah to the point that he can't be as bad as the reporting has made it seem, which of course is going to lead to a pretty substantial backlash in terms of public opinion. Be it a (real or not) facebook photo, or creating a situation where the victim is blamed.. but i think today it has become pretty clear this goes beyond a black kid in a hoodie in a white (which it's not, apparently its 51% minority) community.
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:02 am Posts: 91597 Location: Sector 7-G
Skitch Patterson wrote:
4/5 wrote:
¡B! wrote:
I'm not happy that this dude thought to turn his Neighborhood Watch shift into vigilante justice, but following someone isn't reason for a beat down. If that story is true, and frankly, there's a lot of holes in it, than Trayvon sealed his fate when he decided a fight was better than just getting his ass back to the safety of his home.
Well, let's say Zimmerman's story is completely true. The SYG law states that a person has the right to defend his self when he "reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” This guy was bloodied, but wasn't hurt enough to require any further medical attention. He had near a hundred pounds on the kid (I only have heard this from the protests, so it could very well be false), so I find it hard to believe that shooting the kid was the only way to get the kid to stop punching him (and to save his life or prevent great bodily harm). The two Republican state senators who wrote the law and the present and former governors of Florida have all said that the SYG law doesn't apply to Zimmerman.
I have no idea what really happened, and frankly all the hype from both sides is obnoxious, I just find it foolish when people imply that this kid "sealed his fate" or in some way deserved what he got. Those comments are as empty and meaningless to me as the angelic portraits that others are painting of him.
He might have had a hundred pounds on the kid, but the kid was younger, taller and in good shape. A guy 5'9" 240 is not in the best of shape. The weight difference in this situation is hardly an advantage.
and for the record, I don't have any problem with the way the family is portraying the situation. They lost their son... the issue is with the reporting. The news should not just be showing a happy smiling prepubescent 12 year old as the only representation of who was killed. The news should not be representing him as white. Up until today the story has felt very one sided.
WHITE MAN IN FASCIST GATED COMMUNITY GUNS DOWN BLACK CHILD is a misleading presentation of the facts. As the story grew, Zimmerman has become a pariah to the point that he can't be as bad as the reporting has made it seem, which of course is going to lead to a pretty substantial backlash in terms of public opinion. Be it a (real or not) facebook photo, or creating a situation where the victim is blamed.. but i think today it has become pretty clear this goes beyond a black kid in a hoodie in a white (which it's not, apparently its 51% minority) community.
_________________ It takes a big man to make a threat on the internet.
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
cutuphalfdead wrote:
mastaflatch wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Disagree. If Zimmerman's story is true that means he was getting his head smashed against a sidewalk. I can kill a man twice my size if I'm able to repeatedly bash his head against pavement.
[He might have had a hundred pounds on the kid, but the kid was younger, taller and in good shape. A guy 5'9" 240 is not in the best of shape. The weight difference in this situation is hardly an advantage.
and for the record, I don't have any problem with the way the family is portraying the situation. They lost their son... the issue is with the reporting. The news should not just be showing a happy smiling prepubescent 12 year old as the only representation of who was killed. The news should not be representing him as white. Up until today the story has felt very one sided.
WHITE MAN IN GATED COMMUNITY GUNS DOWN BLACK CHILD is a misleading presentation of the facts. As the story grew, Zimmerman has become a pariah to the point that he can't be as bad as the reporting has made it seem, which of course is going to lead to a pretty substantial backlash in terms of public opinion. Be it a (real or not) facebook photo, or creating a situation where the victim is blamed.. but i think today it has become pretty clear this goes beyond a black kid in a hoodie in a white (which it's not, apparently its 51% minority) community.
Well I disagree about the size thing not mattering, but I agree with everything else you said.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
4/5 wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
[He might have had a hundred pounds on the kid, but the kid was younger, taller and in good shape. A guy 5'9" 240 is not in the best of shape. The weight difference in this situation is hardly an advantage.
and for the record, I don't have any problem with the way the family is portraying the situation. They lost their son... the issue is with the reporting. The news should not just be showing a happy smiling prepubescent 12 year old as the only representation of who was killed. The news should not be representing him as white. Up until today the story has felt very one sided.
WHITE MAN IN GATED COMMUNITY GUNS DOWN BLACK CHILD is a misleading presentation of the facts. As the story grew, Zimmerman has become a pariah to the point that he can't be as bad as the reporting has made it seem, which of course is going to lead to a pretty substantial backlash in terms of public opinion. Be it a (real or not) facebook photo, or creating a situation where the victim is blamed.. but i think today it has become pretty clear this goes beyond a black kid in a hoodie in a white (which it's not, apparently its 51% minority) community.
Well I disagree about the size thing not mattering, but I agree with everything else you said.
You don't think a 6'3" 17 year old athlete can beat the shit out of a 5'9" 28 year old obese dude with asthma?
You don't think a 6'3" 17 year old athlete can beat the shit out of a 5'9" 28 year old obese dude with asthma?
It's not about who would win in a fight, it's whether the guy could physically get the kid off of him, which I'm willing to bet he could.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
You don't think a 6'3" 17 year old athlete can beat the shit out of a 5'9" 28 year old obese dude with asthma?
It's not about who would win in a fight, it's whether the guy could physically get the kid off of him, which I'm willing to bet he could.
But it's not that unreasonable to say that he couldn't.
exactly. And I'm not sure legal decisions should be based on "well he's bigger than me!"
Yep. What are you going to convict on?
Probably couldn't if his story is true.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
However this thing plays out, one thing about this case that pleases me is that finally a civilian is receiving treatment equivalent to that of a police officer. In the BART shooting of Oscar Grant, how long was it before they arrested Mehserle? And in that incident there were fewer ambiguities whether or not it was a bad shoot, and literally dozens of eyewitnesses.
AND I'm pretty sure Mehserle weighed more than Oscar Grant.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
4/5 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
4/5 wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
You don't think a 6'3" 17 year old athlete can beat the shit out of a 5'9" 28 year old obese dude with asthma?
It's not about who would win in a fight, it's whether the guy could physically get the kid off of him, which I'm willing to bet he could.
But it's not that unreasonable to say that he couldn't.
exactly. And I'm not sure legal decisions should be based on "well he's bigger than me!"
Yep. What are you going to convict on?
Probably couldn't if his story is true.
And that's one of the things that really bothers me about this whole thing. He's already been convicted by Hollywood, the media and large segments of the black community, and have blamed the police department as well. The police department knows where he is, and is doing a thorough investigation before arresting him.. and they are demanding "justice". Isn't it justice to obtain as many facts as possible before charging a man with murder? The police are being responsible and doing things the right way, and getting absolutely killed over it.
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