Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm
Posts: 20537
Location: The City Of Trees
I don't agree with the means, but I sure as hell would agree with the ends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

EPA to impose first greenhouse gas limits on power plants
By Juliet Eilperin, Published: March 26

The Environmental Protection Agency will issue the first limits on greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants as early as Tuesday, according to several people briefed on the proposal. The move could end the construction of conventional coal-fired facilities in the United States.

The proposed rule — years in the making and approved by the White House after months of review — will require any new power plant to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt of electricity produced. The average U.S. natural gas plant, which emits 800 to 850 pounds of CO2 per megawatt, meets that standard; coal plants emit an average of 1,768 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt.

These power plants help tell a complex story of what happens when regulations written in Washington ripple through the real economy. Some jobs are lost. Others are created.

Costly controls

Industry officials and environmentalists said in interviews that the rule, which comes on the heels of tough new requirements that the Obama administration imposed on mercury emissions and cross-state pollution from utilities within the past year, dooms any proposal to build a coal-fired plant that does not have costly carbon controls.

“This standard effectively bans new coal plants,” said Joseph Stanko, who heads government relations at the law firm Hunton and Williams and represents several utility companies. “So I don’t see how that is an ‘all of the above’ energy policy.”

The rule provides an exception for coal plants that are already permitted and beginning construction within a year. There are about 20 coal plants now pursuing permits; two of them are federally subsidized and would meet the new standard with advanced pollution controls.

An administration official who asked not to be identified because the rule hasn’t been announced wrote in an e-mail Monday night: “This standard provides a clear and certain path forward for industry and the important domestic energy sources they rely on” for electricity generation.

President Obama does not mention coal as a key component of the nation’s energy supply in speeches about his commitment to exploiting oil and gas reserves and renewable sources.

The proposal does not cover existing plants, although utility companies have announced that they plan to shut down more than 300 boilers, representing more than 42 gigawatts of electricity generation — nearly 13 percent of the nation’s coal-fired electricity — rather than upgrade them with pollution-control technology.

Michael Brune, executive director of the Sierra Club, said the new rule “captures the end of an era” during which coal provided most of the nation’s electricity. It currently generates about 40 percent of U.S. electricity.

The power sector accounts for 40 percent of the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions, and Brune said it is “the only place where we’re making significant progress” in curbing greenhouse gas emissions linked to climate change, adding that “at the same time, it’s not sufficient.”

Cheap natural gas is also contributing to the closure of aging coal-fired plants, as many utilities switch over to gas plants, which produce about half the carbon emissions.

“Gas is contributing to the closure of these plants,” Dominion Resources chief executive Thomas F. Farrell II said in an interview last week. Farrell, who also chairs the Edison Electric Institute, the utility trade association, added: “It’s not all EPA. It’s a combination of low gas prices and EPA working at the same time.”


National Mining Association spokesman Luke Popovich said the proposal shows that Obama is following through on his pledge to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through means other than legislation.

Bypassing Congress

“After Congress refused to pass carbon caps, the administration insisted there were other ways to skin the cat, and this is another way — by setting a standard deliberately calculated to drive affordable coal out of the electricity market,” Popovich said.

Conrad Schneider, advocacy director for the Clean Air Task Force, said the proposed rule will ensure a cut in the nation’s carbon output even if gas prices spike. He cited four planned coal plants that would capture part of their carbon emissions and store them, largely by injecting them into depleted wells to enhance oil recovery. “We need regulatory signals and economic incentives” to make these projects economical, Schneider said.

The proposal will provide some flexibility, allowing super-efficient coal plants an exemption for the first decade of operation before requiring them to reduce their carbon emissions by more than 50 percent.

The EPA rule, called the New Source Performance Standard, will be subject to public comment for at least a month before being finalized, but its backers said they were confident that the White House will usher it into law before Obama’s term ends.

“The Obama administration is committed to moving forward with this,” said Nathan Willcox, federal global warming program director for the advocacy group Environment America. “They’re committed to doing it this, and we’re committed to helping them do it.”


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm
Posts: 9282
Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male
wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry.

Guess we'll be exporting to China.

_________________
Attention Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Reissued
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm
Posts: 20059
Gender: Male
Electromatic wrote:
wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry.

Guess we'll be exporting to China.

balance of trade surplus mothafuckas

_________________
stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm
Posts: 9282
Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male
dkfan9 wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry.

Guess we'll be exporting to China.

balance of trade surplus mothafuckas



:) wonder if we can ship them counterfit coal too.

_________________
Attention Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am
Posts: 28541
Location: PORTLAND, ME
Electromatic wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry.

Guess we'll be exporting to China.

balance of trade surplus mothafuckas



:) wonder if we can ship them counterfit coal too.

we should ask them to manufacture that for us.

_________________
Winner, 2011 RM 'Stache Tournament


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 9495
Location: Richie-Richville, Maryland
So.... have any billionaires lost money on investments in natural gas over the last year? You know, that Obama might be able to help with?

_________________
you get a lifetime, that's it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 10694
Hopefully to be replaced by natural gas!

_________________
Its a Wonderful Life


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Menace to Dogciety
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 12287
Location: Manguetown
Gender: Male
Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems.

_________________
There's just no mercy in your eyes
There ain't no time to set things right
And I'm afraid I've lost the fight
I'm just a painful reminder
Another day you leave behind


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:04 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 9495
Location: Richie-Richville, Maryland
Human Bass wrote:
Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems.


First off, Japan is fucked up. RM favorite ZeroHedge had an update on the situation earlier today.


Second off, Thorium FTW:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2011/09/11/is-thorium-the-biggest-energy-breakthrough-since-fire-possibly/

_________________
you get a lifetime, that's it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:22 am 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am
Posts: 28541
Location: PORTLAND, ME
speaking of japan, there's a ghost ship from the tsunami floating off canada!!

it's like a nautical event horizon!!1!!

_________________
Winner, 2011 RM 'Stache Tournament


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:26 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 8288
broken iris wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems.


First off, Japan is fucked up. RM favorite ZeroHedge had an update on the situation earlier today.


Second off, Thorium FTW:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2011/09/11/is-thorium-the-biggest-energy-breakthrough-since-fire-possibly/

Finally, the time has come for Earth's true masters, Australia, to take their rightful place.

_________________
Sweep the leg!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:29 am 
Offline
User avatar
Menace to Dogciety
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 12287
Location: Manguetown
Gender: Male
I know about thorium (Gen IV) reactors. But Gen III+ are already so fucking good and readily avaible.

_________________
There's just no mercy in your eyes
There ain't no time to set things right
And I'm afraid I've lost the fight
I'm just a painful reminder
Another day you leave behind


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 9495
Location: Richie-Richville, Maryland
Human Bass wrote:
I know about thorium (Gen IV) reactors. But Gen III+ are already so fucking good and readily available.


They still have Fukushima-type risks. The US has enough Thorium to end dependency on foreign oil (hopefully reducing the desire to nation build). Australia has enough to supply itself and China. India has enough to where it won't need to import energy from Iran and can lift 600million of it's citizens from poverty. It's a great big circle jerk of win.

It's tragic that individuals who are very knowledge about climate change and environmental science tend to turn a blind eye to Thorium, which buys us a few centuries of energy independence to develop non-rare earth metal driven solar energy and the battery tech to support it.

_________________
you get a lifetime, that's it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm
Posts: 20537
Location: The City Of Trees
broken iris wrote:
It's tragic that individuals who are very knowledge about climate change and environmental science tend to turn a blind eye to Thorium, which buys us a few centuries of energy independence to develop non-rare earth metal driven solar energy and the battery tech to support it.
I completely agree with you, and it always drives me nuts, as well. Life is full of tradeoffs, and I've never been convinced that the rare disasters like Fukushima outweigh the slow but steady damage that coal continues to ravage.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm
Posts: 9282
Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male
The public is so clueless about the causes and effects of engineering disasters. They just know they are afraid of nuclear.

Fukushima was a cavalcade of stupid decisions for many years in a row all coming to a head.

Environmentalists seem to be anti everything when it comes to producing energy. Every potential soution is shot down.

The only thing that appears acceptable is to sue society back to hunting and gathering.

_________________
Attention Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:44 pm