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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:58 pm 
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I think a well-crafted joke is always funny, no matter how near the knuckle. But the best jokes are the ones which don't contribute to the problems of prejudice etc. but see the world from the minority point-of-view. There's a lot of humour in different perspectives and as long as jokes are built from empathy with the minority side, it's fine. That doesn't mean we can't ironically direct a joke at (for example) the disabled, but we'd better know what irony is unless we want it to fall flat -- no pun intended. The problem is less 'taking offense' and more the danger of your joke being something someone's heard a thousand times before. In fact, that's what people mean sometimes when they say they're offended. Couldn't you be more original?


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
I think a well-crafted joke is always funny, no matter how near the knuckle. But the best jokes are the ones which don't contribute to the problems of prejudice etc. but see the world from the minority point-of-view. There's a lot of humour in different perspectives and as long as jokes are built from empathy with the minority side, it's fine. That doesn't mean we can't ironically direct a joke at (for example) the disabled, but we'd better know what irony is unless we want it to fall flat -- no pun intended. The problem is less 'taking offense' and more the danger of your joke being something someone's heard a thousand times before. In fact, that's what people mean sometimes when they say they're offended. Couldn't you be more original?



I agree with this.

Don't be a Tim Whatley.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:53 pm 
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i still say there's no humorist quite like a libertarian with a persecution complex

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:57 am 
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I personally can't do dead baby jokes. They're unfunny (which is really the cardinal sin of telling jokes, above being offensive) and they just make me sick. Pretty much everything else is fair game although certain topics (rape probably being one) just aren't very funny to me.

I did love the South Park that talked about the "time limit" on shit being made fun of, because it's totally true.

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:25 am 
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I agree with Alex and Orpheus.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
I agree with Alex

we all miss thodoks, harmy :(

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Harmless wrote:
I agree with Alex

we all miss thodoks, harmy :(


C'mere.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
Alex wrote:
Harmless wrote:
I agree with Alex

we all miss thodoks, harmy :(


C'mere.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:03 am 
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No, humor is the one thing that we have that does not have to be PC. Look at Louis CK for example, he says the most non PC things but does it in a satirical way where he is actually condemning such behavior. He says fag, and at the same time is making the joke that it is horrible to say the word fag. And even if there was not satire behind our jokes, as a free people we should be able to say whatever the hell we want, and suffer the backlash from saying such things.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:50 am 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
stip wrote:
I did too, Skitch.

I guess the real test is this


http://bennyhillifier.com/

is there anything that won't become funny once it is bennyhillified?



Doesn't get any better

Spoiler: Show

AL



How this got no more attention is beyond me.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
stip wrote:
I did too, Skitch.

I guess the real test is this


http://bennyhillifier.com/

is there anything that won't become funny once it is bennyhillified?



Doesn't get any better

Spoiler: Show

AL



How this got no more attention is beyond me.

I watched that for so much longer than I expected to.

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:04 pm 
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C4Lukin wrote:
No, humor is the one thing that we have that does not have to be PC. Look at Louis CK for example, he says the most non PC things but does it in a satirical way where he is actually condemning such behavior. He says fag, and at the same time is making the joke that it is horrible to say the word fag. And even if there was not satire behind our jokes, as a free people we should be able to say whatever the hell we want, and suffer the backlash from saying such things.


Thing is, there's a responsibility to take with non-PC humour: you can find anything funny you like, as long as you can justify why. If you can't, you have to be prepared for people to just think you're sick and / or unimaginative for finding it funny.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
No, humor is the one thing that we have that does not have to be PC. Look at Louis CK for example, he says the most non PC things but does it in a satirical way where he is actually condemning such behavior. He says fag, and at the same time is making the joke that it is horrible to say the word fag. And even if there was not satire behind our jokes, as a free people we should be able to say whatever the hell we want, and suffer the backlash from saying such things.


Thing is, there's a responsibility to take with non-PC humour: you can find anything funny you like, as long as you can justify why. If you can't, you have to be prepared for people to just think you're sick and / or unimaginative for finding it funny.


There is a certain irony when a comedian gets thin skinned about people being thin skinned.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:35 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Harmless wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
No, humor is the one thing that we have that does not have to be PC. Look at Louis CK for example, he says the most non PC things but does it in a satirical way where he is actually condemning such behavior. He says fag, and at the same time is making the joke that it is horrible to say the word fag. And even if there was not satire behind our jokes, as a free people we should be able to say whatever the hell we want, and suffer the backlash from saying such things.


Thing is, there's a responsibility to take with non-PC humour: you can find anything funny you like, as long as you can justify why. If you can't, you have to be prepared for people to just think you're sick and / or unimaginative for finding it funny.


There is a certain irony when a comedian gets thin skinned about people being thin skinned.


:thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:35 pm 
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http://slacktory.com/2012/12/finally-we ... e-oatmeal/

Quote:
Image
Finally, we can all start openly hating The Oatmeal

RAINBOW ZOMBIE MONKEY ON A UNICORN!

DAE geek nerd coolsplosion awesomesauce?

Computer Tesla cat go MEOW to fatties!

— The Oatmeal


Yesterday, Matthew Inman, who runs The Oatmeal, posted a comic saying why he hit certain keyboard keys (riveting material). In the last panel, the original line went “Every time the internet does not perform as expected, I rape the shit out of my F5 key.” The image went like this:

Image

He has since hidden the comic from any site navigation, but this link still works.

Complaints started rolling in, and, angry that his every RANDOM!! thought wasn’t being worshipped, Inman replaced the last panel with this:
Image

Here’s the thing — everyone fucks up at some point or another. Some, especially those who may have more privilege than others, just aren’t exposed to people who find certain terms and attitudes offensive. We all get that.

When you say something that offends someone else, and you think it’s reasonable that they’re offended, you apologize. It’s the adult thing to do. It doesn’t even matter so much if you agree or discontinue your speech patterns in the future, what matters is you acknowledge that other human beings have feelings and you respect that. Or you stand by what you said, and you keep it there because you’re not a craven panderer.

His response only served to feed the flames, and a good old-fashioned freakout ensued.

It was like watching a master class in petulance.

There have been inklings of his manchild tendencies before, when after Forbes responded to Matt’s pages-long blowjob for Nikola Tesla (we get it, he was a great scientist — stop pretending you’re the first one to realize this), Inman replied with an even lengthier and nerd-ragier diatribe.

It was actually a ridiculous amount of effort, and one that could have easily been in regular, typed format. But he’s a cartoonist, see, so he has to doodle on a written article like he’s correcting a schoolboy’s essay. It’s kind of like… well I have this word for it… but I wouldn’t want to offend.

Image

He was also involved in a lawsuit regarding FunnyJunk (you can read more about it here) where he really was in the right, but he ended up physically mailing this picture to a lawyer:

Image

Anyway, back to the freakout. On his Twitter page he tries to explain the joke, as if the people getting angry weren’t quite understanding his subtle and nuanced humor:

I wrote that the "F5 key was the rape victim of my keyboard" because I bash it every time the internet does not perform as expected.

“Get it? It’s a reference to how rape is physical abuse against someone who was ‘asking for it’. Sounds less offensive now, right? I will accept your apologies.”

He then started retweeting detractors:

The @Oatmeal remains a fine example of the smug, entitled brand of faux-progressive thought common to, yes, white dudes.


@satellitehigh funny because I've always looked at the @Oatmeal with the same "people still read this?" disdain as Family Circus.


RT @genericsoda: .@Oatmeal if i pander to a bunch of useless nerds who defend rape jokes will i be as popular as you>


And he replaced the last panel, yet again:

Image

Finally, he ragequit and hasn’t updated Twitter in over 24 hours. Probably the smartest thing he’s done yet:

I'm off Twitter for the rest of the day. Again, to anyone I upset with the F5 joke: I'm sorry.

Of course Inman makes the textbook passive-aggressive apology. It’s never, “I didn’t realize that this would be hurtful to some people. I apologize for what I said,” or “I’m sorry I handled this so poorly,” it’s always, “I’m sorry some people got offended by what I said.” He’s petulant that he got called out, but still thinks he’s right so a half-assed statement it is.

Regardless, all of this drama is a nice breaking point for those of us who have had to suffer through Oatmeal fanboyism. Who didn’t want to write entire articles about how his comic is just Garfield for the internet, and he never should have gotten popular enough to cause any controversy, because we’d feel mean because who knows, maybe he was a super-nice guy.

Guess we can now. His stuff isn’t even that good, y’all. Stop freaking out.

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:41 pm 
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internet. :|

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
I think a well-crafted joke is always funny, no matter how near the knuckle. But the best jokes are the ones which don't contribute to the problems of prejudice etc. but see the world from the minority point-of-view. There's a lot of humour in different perspectives and as long as jokes are built from empathy with the minority side, it's fine. That doesn't mean we can't ironically direct a joke at (for example) the disabled, but we'd better know what irony is unless we want it to fall flat -- no pun intended. The problem is less 'taking offense' and more the danger of your joke being something someone's heard a thousand times before. In fact, that's what people mean sometimes when they say they're offended. Couldn't you be more original?



I actually tried presenting this exact philosphy a couple years ago in a diversity group at the college campus I worked at, mainly so people would not be so offended. Also, I told them that we live in America, a very diverse culture, and you are bound to hear things that will bother you. Don't let it. Be comfortable in your own skin.

I received a lot of quizzical looks.


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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:35 am 
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What a shot, eh? Those were small targets.

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 Post subject: Re: The Limits of Humor
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:15 am 
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I Hail Randy Moss wrote:
you are bound to hear things that will bother you. Don't let it. Be comfortable in your own skin.

I will point out that this is extremely easy to say as a white, heterosexual American male. Unchecked privilege, friends.

I had a chat with a friend (who happens to be a rape survivor) about why The Oatmeal's "rape joke" was offensive, since my first instinct was to roll my eyes and go "OH, COME ON." She had this to offer, and though I still don't think that internet outrage and shouting comedians/writers down is a solution to anything, and I'm certainly not comfortable with banning the use of certain words, I have at least a little bit more perspective:

Aly wrote:
I don't think rape should be used as a metaphor and it certainly shouldn't have been an extended metaphor in his petulant responses. For example:
"I wrote that the "F5 key was the rape victim of my keyboard" because I bash it every time the internet does not perform as expected."
Being raped is awful, violent, disgusting, shameful. Comparing it to something like repeatedly hitting a key in frustrations cheapens surviving rape and makes a mockery out of an atrocious action against another human being.


My drunken response:
theplatypus wrote:
Franky Aly I really don't see how it cheapens anyone or anything. I think it only cheapens surviving rape if you let it-- my big issue with taking offense from things like internet comic strips or standup comedy is you give it way too much power, when it's simply going for a cheap laugh from the comedic juxtaposition of something mundane like pressing a computer key, and a horrible thing like rape. So many tragedies and terrible things are used in comedy because of this. It's one of the tenets of comedy, and though it may offend some sensibilities I much prefer that to the alternative: an oppressed, stale, whitewashed, censored, helplessly PC world where certain words are "off limits" and we're all biting our tongues and treading carefully for fear of offending each other. Yes, I think we should try to move towards becoming a more compassionate, caring and understanding people, but I also think we should take intent into account when assessing how objectionable a joke is. I tend to be of the "nothing is off limits" mentality when it comes to speech and comedy, and I realize that is one that is easy to have from my place in life (sure I am a middle-eastern latino but that is who I was BORN as, not something that was done TO me, like rape). The only jokes I really find offensive are the ones that are mean-spirited, that mock the victimized and the helpless (I don't think this one does, unless you're a plastic key), kicking someone when they're down so to speak. I see people getting angry at these things-- even jokes about race and religion-- and I can't help but roll my eyes. Anyway. I'm a bit drunk and I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on this and I'm sorry if this offends you, it's just how I feel. Not trying to be a jerk. I will continue to hate comedians that are unfunny, not ones that joke about offensive things.


Aly wrote:
See, I think this is a mockery of people who are made helpless at one or more points in their lives by an act of power. It doesn't lend power to cheap, bad comedy to get upset over jokes like this. I think instead it takes away power from people who have experienced rape, and upholds the whole "rape is something you can laugh off or make jokes about" kind of stuff. It just... it isn't funny. To me, rape is a sickening abuse of power used to degrade and humiliate another person, and when that experience is devalued for the lulz, it demeans people who have gone through it while excusing people who do it or think little of it. Maybe you're worried about some kind of PC whitewashing of society, but I'm more concerned about the 11 year old boys who make rape jokes or use it as a synonym for beating their friends at a video game: "You got raped, son!"

Frankly, I think having a good, peaceful society that respects the bodies of women and the lives and experiences of all people is far more important than having one where anything goes, especially when it's usually men who rape women and men who make jokes about it in some kind of flippant way.

From personal experience, I can tell you that it does devalue what I've had taken away from me in life. From social work, I know hundreds of people who do feel like it cheapens the fact that we've lost our lives in some ways to rape and that anything beyond using the word to describe (or decry) the act itself is extraneous at best and cruel at worst. That's all.


It was at that moment that I realized that I was out of my depth-- that perhaps this was something I was just unable to comprehend because it doesn't cut to the very core of me as it does her-- and pushing the point further would accomplish nothing.

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