Eh, you don't know that. Having worked for DCFS for a spell, I can very confidently say that there's really no consistent pattern of behavior exhibited by people who've just experienced traumatic events, rape especially. It's not like they all just follow protocol and go running to the police the next day. In the (admittedly unlikely) event that that girl had been raped the night before, she may have responded to a friend who unknowingly asked how her day was by saying, "You know, actually, I've had a pretty bad couple of days, but I really don't want to go into it." To which he might have replied: "Oh, well I've got tickets to see this comedian tonight, come along, it might cheer you up." You just never know.

Hell, maybe it wasn't even the previous night--maybe it was a 1-2 year old occurrence. A somewhat more likely circumstance, and still pretty understandable that she might be sensitive to it.
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the ultimate blame for her offense would be the rapist, not the silly comedian.

And whats so inherently evil about offending people at a comedy show anyway?

Personally, I believe that to be offensive one has to mean offense.

This isn't true in any other walk of life, why would it be true here? I shoot at a squirrel and end up hitting my neighbor, won't my neighbor be just as dead? I get in my car intending to drive home safely, but instead I end up smashing into a compact car and sending someone to the hospital--won't their physical therapy be just as painful?

because being offensive is exactly like war and killing people.

I don't know, bmac--what's so inherently evil about killing people in a war? I mean, it's kind of part of the whole "war" package, right? Some behaviors, recontextualize them however you like, are still just plain rotten. Obviously this isn't on par with that

Sure, but there's also a reason why you won't be charged with the same crime as you would be had you intentionally shot at your neighbor or slammed into another car.

The ultimate blame, yes, but not all of it. This business of deflecting all responsibility off the offending party and onto someone else is purely juvenile. Yeah, I get it--you can't know what all everyone in the audience has been through. But use your fucking brain. Like I said, in most cases, it behooves people to check their sensitivities at the door when attending a comedy show. But surely Tosh could have reacted to her comment in a way that not only would have been way classier but also a hell of a lot funnier, which as a comedian you'd hope would be his interest more than being "shocking" or "controversial." .

I don't know, bmac--what's so inherently evil about killing people in a war? I mean, it's kind of part of the whole "war" package, right? Some behaviors, recontextualize them however you like, are still just plain rotten. Obviously this isn't on par with that, and again, I don't move that all comedy should always be subject to everyone's whims and sensitivities, nor do I think that people are incapable of simply being whiners. But generally, I don't find myself sympathizing with grown-ups who just seem either incapable or flatly unwilling to sympathize with others. I get that comedy can be a rough business. But you can say the same thing about a lot of other businesses that involve people doing shitty things. Rarely do I think it makes the shitty things okay.

This isn't true in any other walk of life, why would it be true here? I shoot at a squirrel and end up hitting my neighbor, won't my neighbor be just as dead? I get in my car intending to drive home safely, but instead I end up smashing into a compact car and sending someone to the hospital--won't their physical therapy be just as painful? The reason most people think intent is irrelevant is because oftentimes what someone intended to do has no bearing at all on what actually happens. Offensive comments work the same way.

its true in many aspects of life actually. A kid accidentally hurting another kid during a sporting event like a baseball game isnt the same as a kid purposefully hurting the other, regardless of how irrationally the parent acts. Breaking someone's toy on accident is different than doing it on purpose, regardless of the state of the toy.

Right, but you're arguing 'cause' here. My point is that the effect is no different, which is essentially what you were arguing to begin with: "Something is only offensive"--i.e. someone can only be caused offense--"if it was intended to be offensive." No, that's wrong. In both of the scenarios you've provided above, the effect is no different regardless of intent. The baseball player is still just as hurt. The toy is still just as broken. The offended person is still just as offended. You may think it's unwarranted, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Right, but you're arguing 'cause' here. My point is that the effect is no different, which is essentially what you were arguing to begin with: "Something is only offensive"--i.e. someone can only be caused offense--"if it was intended to be offensive." No, that's wrong. In both of the scenarios you've provided above, the effect is no different regardless of intent. The baseball player is still just as hurt. The toy is still just as broken. The offended person is still just as offended. You may think it's unwarranted, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I know I've certainly taken context and intent into affect when determining how offended I am about something.

Isn't the source of offense always internal? I mean, isn't it just as possible to not take offense at something that was fully intended to be offensive?

In any case, I guess I just don't subscribe to the idea that being uncompromising as a performer/artist is more important than common human decency. When a female heckler says, "Actually, rape jokes are never funny," it just seems like there's a better way to respond than, "Actually, wouldn't it be funny if five guys just raped you right now?" A woman who would take offense to that is not being unusually prudish; a woman who would take offense to that is probably being painfully normal.



This discrepancy has more or less been at the heart of every disagreement I've ever had with my wife. She treats her emotional reactions as gut feelings, I treat them as algebra problems. It would be nice if everyone could think that logically, but barring that it seems like the least we can do is meet each other halfway. And with that, I'll meet you guys halfway and shut up.

I blame bmacsmith for pitting us against each other.

He probably didn't mean to, though.

because being offensive is exactly like war and killing people.

Them's some mighty keen reading comprehension skills you got there son

I believe it depends on the audience.

You wouldn't want to tell the "dead baby" joke at it's funeral, for instance.