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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:57 am 
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My views on green energy and some environmental issues have changed due to being educated on this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:31 am 
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thodoks wrote:
it is 100% certain that you are in the wrong on something about which you think you are 100% correct


:|


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:39 pm 
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I feel like I learn things from others all the time, or at least get a different perspective I didn't have before.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:57 pm 
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I do want to say that, regardless of who is learning what, the conversations that happen here are often pretty sophisticated, and that is to everyone's credit

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:56 pm 
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stip wrote:
I do want to say that, regardless of who is learning what, the conversations that happen here are often pretty sophisticated, and that is to everyone's credit

Very much this. I read a lot more than I post here, and I must say that some threads (circumcision and gun control, for example) have made me go and do a bit of reading around the subject, in order to keep track of the arguments. It's an education in how to debate, for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
...ever had their mind changed on a particular topic as a result of debate here? Or changed their mind about a topic, period? Really, what's the point of debate if one isn't willing to be open to being wrong?

It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Nobody is right about everything. Regardless of profession or credentials or status, it is 100% certain that you are in the wrong on something about which you think you are 100% correct, and it seems pretty undeniable to me that we're wrong a lot more than we're right. Does anyone ever stop to consider precisely what it is they might be wrong about? Actually think through how they might be wrong about something, what the implications of being wrong on a particular topic might be? Not superficial accommodation to a contrary position, but meaningful consideration of the shortcomings of one's arguments? Do you hedge your convictions and your thought, and allow your worldview to be shaped by the uncomfortable reality that you know a lot less than you think you do?

What are you wrong about?


I think the point of most debate- be it here or in any other context is to expose oneself to different perspectives. Without a variety of opinions, we have nothing to gauge our own convictions against and exist in something of an intellectual vacuum- in which case we believe our own view to be the ONLY view and fall victim to ALWAYS thinking we are right. from what I can tell believing 'my own opinion is the only way to approach a subject' is the most expedient way to make the most horrible of mistakes.
Lack of perspective creates nothing but complete ignorance and suddenly we exist as an island unto ourselves - never to meaningfully interact with any other human being, and dying lonely and in darkness.

I guess I'm trying to say that without debate - rational debate that allows everyone to state how they feel without pressure to conform etc - we don't ever have an opportunity to communicate with anyone but ourselves.
This is my definition of hell.

That said- I don't know what or who here has changed my opinions about anything but without reading the numerous threads here, and participating when I'm so moved, I'm quite certain I'd have missed out on a whole lot of insights into a large group of people I'd never have had any contact with otherwise. And that makes me a more enlightened person now than I would have been.

Does that qualify as having had my mind changed as a result of the debates here? I couldn't say.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:26 am 
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This forum along with a friend of mine and my own life experience helped convert me to atheism, although I still believe in catching flies with honey instead of being a dick about it.

Thodoks got me to save money, and he and g2t convinced me college football players should be paid.

So yeah, I definitely get something out of it, especially on a financial/economic front.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:00 pm 
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On a very general level, I think this forum has helped me to radicalize my opinions, making where I stand much clearer. I used to pussyfoot around on issues like drug legalization, the minimum wage, and immigration before I started posting here.

The only specific example I can think of (although I didn't admit it at the time) is that PD and Davo convinced me that voter ID laws are a crock of shit:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24028

There might be others, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Stip's line of thinking is one I've heard before, but it always makes more sense to me hearing it from him. Maybe it's because I've gotten used to his writing style over the years and also because it's an ideology I've moved much closer to as I've aged. Some of my attitudes have been reinforced a bit during the times he posts here.

And then there's the times when i've decided to blame it all on capitalism, only to have thodoks post something that makes me rethink my position.

This has always been a really good forum (my favorite on RM) with a lot of good discussion. I only wish it was a little bit more active. There's been a lot of slow periods over the last few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Sandler wrote:
This has always been a really good forum (my favorite on RM) with a lot of good discussion. I only wish it was a little bit more active. There's been a lot of slow periods over the last few years.
I think PD quitting the board was when it really started to get slow. LW also seems to post less, and whether you agree with him or not he's been a core presence in here from the beginning. My own general absence this summer hasn't helped, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:20 pm 
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I totally had a pretty awesome post about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:21 pm 
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where's thodoks?

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Alex wrote:
where's thodoks?

did anyone really expect him to man up in here?

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:41 pm 
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warehouse wrote:
Alex wrote:
where's thodoks?

did anyone really expect him to man up in here?

if you had ever laid eyes on him you'd know anywhere he goes is instantly manned up

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:34 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
...ever had their mind changed on a particular topic as a result of debate here? Or changed their mind about a topic, period? Really, what's the point of debate if one isn't willing to be open to being wrong?

It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Nobody is right about everything. Regardless of profession or credentials or status, it is 100% certain that you are in the wrong on something about which you think you are 100% correct, and it seems pretty undeniable to me that we're wrong a lot more than we're right. Does anyone ever stop to consider precisely what it is they might be wrong about? Actually think through how they might be wrong about something, what the implications of being wrong on a particular topic might be? Not superficial accommodation to a contrary position, but meaningful consideration of the shortcomings of one's arguments? Do you hedge your convictions and your thought, and allow your worldview to be shaped by the uncomfortable reality that you know a lot less than you think you do?

What are you wrong about?


Definitely, I've flipflopped on a lot of things the last 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
thodoks wrote:
...ever had their mind changed on a particular topic as a result of debate here? Or changed their mind about a topic, period? Really, what's the point of debate if one isn't willing to be open to being wrong?

It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Nobody is right about everything. Regardless of profession or credentials or status, it is 100% certain that you are in the wrong on something about which you think you are 100% correct, and it seems pretty undeniable to me that we're wrong a lot more than we're right. Does anyone ever stop to consider precisely what it is they might be wrong about? Actually think through how they might be wrong about something, what the implications of being wrong on a particular topic might be? Not superficial accommodation to a contrary position, but meaningful consideration of the shortcomings of one's arguments? Do you hedge your convictions and your thought, and allow your worldview to be shaped by the uncomfortable reality that you know a lot less than you think you do?

What are you wrong about?


Definitely, I've flipflopped on a lot of things the last 10 years.


women vs men?

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:25 pm 
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I have changed my mind about things due to discussion on this board. I have changed my views on a lot of things in my 30s. I think I got a little more conservative and now I'm swinging back the other way.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:08 am 
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my biggest change the last few years was much more on the individual/community axis rather than any liberal/conservative one.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:30 am 
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Well, it's not like I'm going to come around to LittleWing's side of things, but I've seen members make some thoughtful, intelligent posts that brought me around to other ways of thinking. Green Habit, Chris_H_2, and broken_iris come to mind, but I can't remember a particular topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:57 pm 
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¡B! wrote:
Well, it's not like I'm going to come around to LittleWing's side of things, but I've seen members make some thoughtful, intelligent posts that brought me around to other ways of thinking. Green Habit, Chris_H_2, and broken_iris come to mind, but I can't remember a particular topic.
We had some good discussions on food issues. :thumbsup:

I don't always agree with LW but I've always been impressed as to how extensive he's defended his views over the past 7-8 years. He steps up to the challenge.


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