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| Has anyone in the history of this forum... http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=98723 |
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| Author: | thodoks [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
...ever had their mind changed on a particular topic as a result of debate here? Or changed their mind about a topic, period? Really, what's the point of debate if one isn't willing to be open to being wrong? It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Nobody is right about everything. Regardless of profession or credentials or status, it is 100% certain that you are in the wrong on something about which you think you are 100% correct, and it seems pretty undeniable to me that we're wrong a lot more than we're right. Does anyone ever stop to consider precisely what it is they might be wrong about? Actually think through how they might be wrong about something, what the implications of being wrong on a particular topic might be? Not superficial accommodation to a contrary position, but meaningful consideration of the shortcomings of one's arguments? Do you hedge your convictions and your thought, and allow your worldview to be shaped by the uncomfortable reality that you know a lot less than you think you do? What are you wrong about? |
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| Author: | stip [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
I don't post here that much (and when I do it is streaky), and if I'm doing a lot of arguing in a thread I probably think I'm right, although I've had my mind changed on issues in the past (I no longer support third parties, for instance, because of someone else's argument). I don't know if it's happened here. The point of debating is that it often sharpens your own thinking by forcing you to defend it. I'll also frequently not change my broad opinion, but change its shape in various nuanced ways because of things that are said. And often times I think the point of the debate is not to change the person you are arguing with (although that can happen), as much as it is to try and change the opinions of the audience that is following along or participating at the margins. I suspect that is who benefits. Maybe not a good example, but that circumcision thread from a few weeks ago falls into that vein. I didn't have any strong opinions or ideas going into it, and learned a fair bit just watching the partisans go at it. |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
i've been told numerous times on here that i don't know what i'm talking about and i'm completely wrong. i don't believe this is the case in regard to everything i post, but i have had my thinking/opinion changed and posted as much when it happened. |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
thodoks story time! answer your own questions. |
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| Author: | thodoks [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
EllisEamos wrote: thodoks story time! answer your own questions. I will. It's a line of thought that I've found really crystallizes for me the big picture. |
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| Author: | bmacsmith [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
Refusal to accept particular political philosophies as infallible and having a generally fatalist viewpoint on life helps. I'm probably too proud to admit I'm wrong, though my opinion does change slowly over time (note this does NOT include our current Dark Knight Rises discussion wherein I am completely right!). I think I was pro Iraq war at one point. I'm thinking seriously of getting that No Code tattoo now. I think of it as a refusal to live by rigid belief systems. "Be water my friends!" |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
thodoks wrote: EllisEamos wrote: thodoks story time! answer your own questions. I will. It's a line of thought that I've found really crystallizes for me the big picture. when did you become yoda? |
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| Author: | px [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
I think the most recent example of my admitting to being wrong was just yesterday when some friends of mine thought it was bad parenting to bring a 6 year old to midnight showing of an "ultraviolent" PG-13 movie. I argued that it was summer break and staying up late to watch Batman would be a special treat for a kid. I'm not sure either side was wrong, but I was less right than they were. |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
the questions pertain solely to N&D on RM, px. |
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| Author: | cutuphalfdead [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
I'm wrong about just about everything I open my mouth about, to be honest. |
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| Author: | stip [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
thodoks, a long time ago you were walking me through your economic philosophy. That was interesting and you never finished. |
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| Author: | Human Bass [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
I would feel a bit lost sometimes agreeing with dems, other times with reps. When I found libertarianism, everything made sense. I changed my views on war/interventionism and economics (from Chigaco to Austria). |
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| Author: | px [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
EllisEamos wrote: the questions pertain solely to N&D on RM, px. Oh! In that case, I'll just simply be watching this thread. |
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| Author: | LittleWing [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
I've been posting here for about ten years, since the old board. Since that time my political views have changed a lot. Mostly through personal experience overseas and reading a lot. But there are a number of things that I have changed on as a result of posting on this board. The biggest being gay marriage. I used to be state's rights on this matter, but PunkDavid made a fantastic post on Love vs. Virginia and it almost immediately changed my stance on the issue. Thodoks - you have changed my position on taxation in reference to the deficit. You've convinced me that the dangers our deficits outweigh the dangers of current increases in taxation. Rational self-interest - You completely changed my viewpoint with your comments on rational self-interest Drugs - Discussions with numerous people, probably mostly Buffalohed, shifted my stance on the legalization of drugs and the drug war. There may be a couple others that have shifted my opinions on this forum alone. CivFanatics has probably been more influential in alterations of my personal philosophies than this forum as this forum has really slowed down over the years. |
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| Author: | bmacsmith [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
LittleWing wrote: I've been posting here for about ten years, since the old board. Since that time my political views have changed a lot. Mostly through personal experience overseas and reading a lot. But there are a number of things that I have changed on as a result of posting on this board. The biggest being gay marriage. I used to be state's rights on this matter, but PunkDavid made a fantastic post on Love vs. Virginia and it almost immediately changed my stance on the issue. Thodoks - you have changed my position on taxation in reference to the deficit. You've convinced me that the dangers our deficits outweigh the dangers of current increases in taxation. Rational self-interest - You completely changed my viewpoint with your comments on rational self-interest Drugs - Discussions with numerous people, probably mostly Buffalohed, shifted my stance on the legalization of drugs and the drug war. There may be a couple others that have shifted my opinions on this forum alone. CivFanatics has probably been more influential in alterations of my personal philosophies than this forum as this forum has really slowed down over the years. hey did you like Civ 5? |
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| Author: | spenno [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
Human Bass wrote: I would feel a bit lost sometimes agreeing with dems, other times with reps. When I found libertarianism, everything made sense. It doesn't create any conflict to me to say on some issues I agree with conservatives, on some the far left, on some with libertarians. You don't need to pick a side, or at least I don't feel like as though I do. Aren't you afraid that a rigid adherence to one philosophy means you run the risk of uncritically accepting some things that might deserve more scrutiny? I'd still broadly identify myself as 'centre-left' but that isn't to say I don't find myself occasionally find some aspects of the left making little sense with more compelling arguments coming from libertarians or conservatives. It's an issue-by-issue thing for me: I think it's rather unlikely that one school of thought has all (or most) of the answers. I'm pretty much never sure I'm 100% right, my opinions have been changed numerous times in the past and I hope they continue to do so in the future. |
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| Author: | Human Bass [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
spenno wrote: Human Bass wrote: I would feel a bit lost sometimes agreeing with dems, other times with reps. When I found libertarianism, everything made sense. It doesn't create any conflict to me to say on some issues I agree with conservatives, on some the far left, on some with libertarians. You don't need to pick a side, or at least I don't feel like as though I do. Aren't you afraid that a rigid adherence to one philosophy means you run the risk of uncritically accepting some things that might deserve more scrutiny? I'd still broadly identify myself as 'centre-left' but that isn't to say I don't find myself occasionally find some aspects of the left making little sense with more compelling arguments coming from libertarians or conservatives. It's an issue-by-issue thing for me: I think it's rather unlikely that one school of thought has all (or most) of the answers. I'm pretty much never sure I'm 100% right, my opinions have been changed numerous times in the past and I hope they continue to do so in the future. I'm libertarian because I find the non-agression principle to make perfect sense. Everything that violates this principle seems to require a lot of mental acrobatics. |
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| Author: | LittleWing [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
bmacsmith wrote: LittleWing wrote: I've been posting here for about ten years, since the old board. Since that time my political views have changed a lot. Mostly through personal experience overseas and reading a lot. But there are a number of things that I have changed on as a result of posting on this board. The biggest being gay marriage. I used to be state's rights on this matter, but PunkDavid made a fantastic post on Love vs. Virginia and it almost immediately changed my stance on the issue. Thodoks - you have changed my position on taxation in reference to the deficit. You've convinced me that the dangers our deficits outweigh the dangers of current increases in taxation. Rational self-interest - You completely changed my viewpoint with your comments on rational self-interest Drugs - Discussions with numerous people, probably mostly Buffalohed, shifted my stance on the legalization of drugs and the drug war. There may be a couple others that have shifted my opinions on this forum alone. CivFanatics has probably been more influential in alterations of my personal philosophies than this forum as this forum has really slowed down over the years. hey did you like Civ 5? Never got it. I know if I get it I'll just get another crack addiction. "Just one more turn. Just one more tech. Just one more battle." |
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| Author: | bmacsmith [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
LittleWing wrote: bmacsmith wrote: LittleWing wrote: I've been posting here for about ten years, since the old board. Since that time my political views have changed a lot. Mostly through personal experience overseas and reading a lot. But there are a number of things that I have changed on as a result of posting on this board. The biggest being gay marriage. I used to be state's rights on this matter, but PunkDavid made a fantastic post on Love vs. Virginia and it almost immediately changed my stance on the issue. Thodoks - you have changed my position on taxation in reference to the deficit. You've convinced me that the dangers our deficits outweigh the dangers of current increases in taxation. Rational self-interest - You completely changed my viewpoint with your comments on rational self-interest Drugs - Discussions with numerous people, probably mostly Buffalohed, shifted my stance on the legalization of drugs and the drug war. There may be a couple others that have shifted my opinions on this forum alone. CivFanatics has probably been more influential in alterations of my personal philosophies than this forum as this forum has really slowed down over the years. hey did you like Civ 5? Never got it. I know if I get it I'll just get another crack addiction. "Just one more turn. Just one more tech. Just one more battle." i was dissappointed. too dumbed down. but if i reinstalled civ 4 i'd be in the same boat. |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has anyone in the history of this forum... |
bmacsmith wrote: LittleWing wrote: bmacsmith wrote: hey did you like Civ 5? Never got it. I know if I get it I'll just get another crack addiction. "Just one more turn. Just one more tech. Just one more battle." i was dissappointed. too dumbed down. but if i reinstalled civ 4 i'd be in the same boat. |
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