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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:14 pm 
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bmacsmith wrote:
the idea that a god needs or wants us to worship him is pretty insane.
The clinginess is a huge red flag.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:01 pm 
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px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
If Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, polytheists and pantheists have anything to do with it, yes. :|


All these folks are preconditioned to identify with it in that way.


So what? You asked whether the definition of 'God' would change if you didn't attribute Judao-Christian aspects to him. I said yes.


px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
It depends what you need God to be in order to call him / her / it 'God'. There is no inherent definition of the term. It's just a word.


I respectfully disagree. If you ask anyone - believer or not - they can 'define' "God" and their definitions would probably all sound extremely similar. It's the same concept in most religions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god


'Probably all'? 'Extremely similar'? 'Most religions'?

OK, so not all then. Not the same then. Not all religions then.

My point was simple: 'God' does not necessarily possess the attributes we have ascribed to him in Christian Doctrine (since Christian Doctrine is parabiblical; it's not biblical studies). You of all people, since you have no faith at all, should have no problem whatsoever in agreeing with me. You seem to just be intent on disagreeing for the sake of it.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
If Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, polytheists and pantheists have anything to do with it, yes. :|


All these folks are preconditioned to identify with it in that way.


So what? You asked whether the definition of 'God' would change if you didn't attribute Judao-Christian aspects to him. I said yes.


px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
It depends what you need God to be in order to call him / her / it 'God'. There is no inherent definition of the term. It's just a word.


I respectfully disagree. If you ask anyone - believer or not - they can 'define' "God" and their definitions would probably all sound extremely similar. It's the same concept in most religions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god


'Probably all'? 'Extremely similar'? 'Most religions'?

OK, so not all then. Not the same then. Not all religions then.

My point was simple: 'God' does not necessarily possess the attributes we have ascribed to him in Christian Doctrine (since Christian Doctrine is parabiblical; it's not biblical studies). You of all people, since you have no faith at all, should have no problem whatsoever in agreeing with me. You seem to just be intent on disagreeing for the sake of it.


I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from, to be honest. You posed questions about redefining "God." I didn't. I simply asked if it was possible for "God" to be redefined and still be "God." You tossed out a list of religious flavors and suggested that all those folks would STILL recognize their "God."

I simply said it's because of conditioning. The idea of God is pretty tough to redefine without discontinuing one's faith in it. Redefining would in fact create a new god wouldn't it? Or a new and improved God? Either way, it's still a God 'created' in the minds of human beings.

Unless I need to be corrected, your suggestions seem to insist that although we redefine, we also must still have faith.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:36 pm 
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px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
If Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, polytheists and pantheists have anything to do with it, yes. :|


All these folks are preconditioned to identify with it in that way.


So what? You asked whether the definition of 'God' would change if you didn't attribute Judao-Christian aspects to him. I said yes.


px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
It depends what you need God to be in order to call him / her / it 'God'. There is no inherent definition of the term. It's just a word.


I respectfully disagree. If you ask anyone - believer or not - they can 'define' "God" and their definitions would probably all sound extremely similar. It's the same concept in most religions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god


'Probably all'? 'Extremely similar'? 'Most religions'?

OK, so not all then. Not the same then. Not all religions then.

My point was simple: 'God' does not necessarily possess the attributes we have ascribed to him in Christian Doctrine (since Christian Doctrine is parabiblical; it's not biblical studies). You of all people, since you have no faith at all, should have no problem whatsoever in agreeing with me. You seem to just be intent on disagreeing for the sake of it.


I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from, to be honest. You posed questions about redefining "God." I didn't. I simply asked if it was possible for "God" to be redefined and still be "God." You tossed out a list of religious flavors and suggested that all those folks would STILL recognize their "God."

I simply said it's because of conditioning. The idea of God is pretty tough to redefine without discontinuing one's faith in it. Redefining would in fact create a new god wouldn't it? Or a new and improved God? Either way, it's still a God 'created' in the minds of human beings.

Unless I need to be corrected, your suggestions seem to insist that although we redefine, we also must still have faith.


1) No it isn't.

2) No it wouldn't. Unless you believe that each religion is worshipping different Gods. I don't.

3) No it isn't, if you believe in God. Which you don't, so you're obviously going to say the things you do.

And finally, I didn't say WE MUST do anything. If you feel that I'm prescribing your way of life, you're feeling way over-sensitive about what I'm writing. These are my own thoughts, I'm not trying to pull a mind meld on you.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:08 pm 
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It is a fact that God has been redefined consistently throughout the history of humanity. However, that does not suggest that any of the redefinitions are reasonable. For example, I think a deistic God is more likely to exist than a theistic one, but I see no reason to accept either proposition.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:19 pm 
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And there's the rub: what is your reason for accepting the proposition. If I hadn't seen and felt God in my experience of life, I would not have been lead to accept it; a proposition is only accepted if it helps to make sense of, and put into context, one's experience. I have never sought religiosity.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
And there's the rub: what is your reason for accepting the proposition. If I hadn't seen and felt God in my experience of life, I would not have been lead to accept it; a proposition is only accepted if it helps to make sense of, and put into context, one's experience. I have never sought religiosity.


Harmless, will there be masturbation in Heaven?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:20 am 
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Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.

Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
If Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, polytheists and pantheists have anything to do with it, yes. :|


All these folks are preconditioned to identify with it in that way.


So what? You asked whether the definition of 'God' would change if you didn't attribute Judao-Christian aspects to him. I said yes.


px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
It depends what you need God to be in order to call him / her / it 'God'. There is no inherent definition of the term. It's just a word.


I respectfully disagree. If you ask anyone - believer or not - they can 'define' "God" and their definitions would probably all sound extremely similar. It's the same concept in most religions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god


'Probably all'? 'Extremely similar'? 'Most religions'?

OK, so not all then. Not the same then. Not all religions then.

My point was simple: 'God' does not necessarily possess the attributes we have ascribed to him in Christian Doctrine (since Christian Doctrine is parabiblical; it's not biblical studies). You of all people, since you have no faith at all, should have no problem whatsoever in agreeing with me. You seem to just be intent on disagreeing for the sake of it.


I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from, to be honest. You posed questions about redefining "God." I didn't. I simply asked if it was possible for "God" to be redefined and still be "God." You tossed out a list of religious flavors and suggested that all those folks would STILL recognize their "God."

I simply said it's because of conditioning. The idea of God is pretty tough to redefine without discontinuing one's faith in it. Redefining would in fact create a new god wouldn't it? Or a new and improved God? Either way, it's still a God 'created' in the minds of human beings.

Unless I need to be corrected, your suggestions seem to insist that although we redefine, we also must still have faith.


1) No it isn't.

2) No it wouldn't. Unless you believe that each religion is worshipping different Gods. I don't.

3) No it isn't, if you believe in God. Which you don't, so you're obviously going to say the things you do.

And finally, I didn't say WE MUST do anything. If you feel that I'm prescribing your way of life, you're feeling way over-sensitive about what I'm writing. These are my own thoughts, I'm not trying to pull a mind meld on you.


Thank you, but no, I'm not over-sensitive about what you're writing.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:55 am 
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Harmless wrote:
And there's the rub: what is your reason for accepting the proposition. If I hadn't seen and felt God in my experience of life, I would not have been lead to accept it; a proposition is only accepted if it helps to make sense of, and put into context, one's experience. I have never sought religiosity.

Sure, but then, it's not like I (or, for that matter, most atheists) haven't "experienced God." I was devoutly religious for the better part of my life. I just reached a point where I came to think about it critically and realize it didn't make sense.

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No matter how dark the storm gets overhead
They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge
What about us when we're down here in it?
We gotta watch our backs


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:28 am 
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I’ve never believed in God. From the time I was young and sent to Catholic church with my Aunt I thought something was off. I didn’t know what it was but I stopped going as soon as I was old enough to decide for myself. I bounced in and out of different churches through high school (including a born again deal, and a Mormon deal) nothing struck a cord and it all seemed phony to me.

I read the Bible cover to cover as a Senior in high school at the urging of my English teacher. I made my decision and it hasn’t changed much since then.

There is no God, and the Bible is a work of fiction meant to be a form of control.
When man discovered he couldn’t be controlled by laws, he created Heaven as the reward for being good and Hell as the punishment for “sinning.”

There was probably a man that “Jesus” was based off of, but as I don’t believe in God I don’t believe he was the Son of God.

I don’t think there is a higher being. I don’t think there is an afterlife for us. I think we are evolved from who knows what and not created in anyone’s image. When we are dead we rot in the ground. I guess I’ll see if I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

I base my decisions on my personal moral compass and the laws of the country I live in. Those two things are not always in harmony. I haven’t been in a church since high school and have no plan on going back unless my children show an interest.

That being said…

I do (partially) blame the decline of religion in this country on decline of out society. I think this county needs to bring God back into their lives and into the community in a big way.

I’m not talking about the “I feel the spirit of JEEEEEE-SUS running through me.” Type guys. I’m talking about the basic presence of religion no matter what your faith is.

Why?

Because we are slowly but surely going to hell as a country (pardon the pun)

We need the control, we need the fear of God. We need eternal consequences because in the America of today not a lot of people give a shit about much of anything.

We have watched OJ get away with double homicide, Lindsey Lohan avoid jail on a dozen charges and Chris Brown beat the shit out of an A list celebrity with no consequences. Every smart assed kid knows to call DSS if their father smacks them for being an idiot. We watched an entire industry get away with massive corruption and walk away laughing with millions of dollars in their pockets.
And lastly we watched a presidential administration lie cheat and steal on such a massive level that it might have done permanent damage to our country.

The people supposed to be in charge are the biggest crooks and every kid with half a brain sees it.

We have run out of accountability. We have run out of integrity. We have run out of morals.

God and religion could bring that back. Even if it’s a lie.

Does this country have the resolve to make the changes necessary to save us from ourselves?

I’m not that naïve.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I won't disagree with you, fitzy. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:34 am 
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Man in Black wrote:
Harmless wrote:
And there's the rub: what is your reason for accepting the proposition. If I hadn't seen and felt God in my experience of life, I would not have been lead to accept it; a proposition is only accepted if it helps to make sense of, and put into context, one's experience. I have never sought religiosity.


Harmless, will there be masturbation in Heaven?


I bloody well hope so.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:35 am 
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px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.


I'm pretty sure that's gone both ways, px.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:15 am 
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Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.


I'm pretty sure that's gone both ways, px.


I don't think so. I've learned a lot from your posts in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:53 am 
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fitzy wrote:
When man discovered he couldn’t be controlled by laws, he created Heaven as the reward for being good and Hell as the punishment for “sinning.”



I thought god was created when man evolved enough to realize 1) we're floating in space and 2) everyone dies.

Isn't there a specific "God center" region in the brain that was identified and probably evolved as a result of us going......
Spoiler: show
Image
upon realization of said 1) and 2).

This "God center" can be artificially "activitated" which results in the test subjects reporting the presence of spiritual beings with them coupled with warm & peaceful feelings.

I think I'm experiencing this right now just at me typing this.

Ok now I'm scared bye.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:35 pm 
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px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.


I'm pretty sure that's gone both ways, px.


I don't think so. I've learned a lot from your posts in this thread.


Of course you don't think so. You said 'You very often make me feel like...', and I told you the same. You very often make me feel like... I'm sure even you realise that you can't really 'disagree' with how you've made me feel.

And good. Go into the world, armed with your new knowledge about me... and something something.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.


I'm pretty sure that's gone both ways, px.


I don't think so. I've learned a lot from your posts in this thread.


Of course you don't think so. You said 'You very often make me feel like...', and I told you the same. You very often make me feel like... I'm sure even you realise that you can't really 'disagree' with how you've made me feel.

And good. Go into the world, armed with your new knowledge about me... and something something.



It's not about you Harmless. It's about everyone. :peace:

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:46 pm 
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px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
px wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Anyway, good evening px. I'm not doing this tonight. You are welcome to your opinions.


W/e. You very often make me feel like I'm not welcome to discuss this topic in your presence anyways, so have a good evening indeed.


I'm pretty sure that's gone both ways, px.


I don't think so. I've learned a lot from your posts in this thread.


Of course you don't think so. You said 'You very often make me feel like...', and I told you the same. You very often make me feel like... I'm sure even you realise that you can't really 'disagree' with how you've made me feel.

And good. Go into the world, armed with your new knowledge about me... and something something.



It's not about you Harmless. It's about everyone. :peace:


The original point to which I replied was about you. My reply, naturally, was about me. I'm pretty sure that if anyone else finds my dealings on RM to be personally offensive, they will tell me (and have). RM doesn't need your policing, it has moderation.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:47 pm 
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*waits for px's last word*


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