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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:15 am 
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I actually get pretty annoyed with atheists in general. They seem to pollute cyberspace with their "religious people are just stupid" nonsense. It makes all of us nonbelievers look bad. But then again the old "just read this crappy book and all you questions will be answered" is pretty fucking stupid too. Seems people can't have a real discussion about religion without it devolving into cliches.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:23 am 
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turned2black wrote:
Seems people can't have a real discussion about religion without it devolving into cliches.


You mean like this?

turned2black wrote:
the old "just read this crappy book and all you questions will be answered" is pretty fucking stupid

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:34 am 
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warehouse wrote:
Fortuna69 wrote:
stip wrote:
I used to be a 'religious people are stupid' style atheist.

So I'm not making it up. Some people really do think along these lines?

i'd guess at least 50% of atheists believe they are smarter for not believing in a higher being.



I think that's probably a pretty conservative estimate. That's kind of the trade off, psychologically. No salvation, but at least you're better than everyone else. Of course religious people can also think that AND have salvation, so I guess they come out ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:43 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
turned2black wrote:
Seems people can't have a real discussion about religion without it devolving into cliches.


You mean like this?

turned2black wrote:
the old "just read this crappy book and all you questions will be answered" is pretty fucking stupid


Exactly!

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:17 pm 
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turned2black wrote:
I have been on a spiritual "quest" for some years now. I really, really want to believe in something, anything. I have many christian friends that I truly respect and love that seem to have this depth to them that I don't have. That "depth" is spirituality. They have a quite reserve and calmness to them that is something to be admired. My mother is a Buddhist that attends Unitarian Universal meetings and after decades of soul searching, has really seemed to find an inner peace. I have many Mormon friends that I have respect for and even though I don't agree with the politics, most of them seem to have an inner peace that I just don't have.

Then my father died and I realized that he, like me, always seemed to be searching. And then it dawned on me, searching for the truth is a kind of spirituality. The search for meaning is what it is to be human and maybe us agnostics/searchers are really the most spiritual people on Earth. Maybe these people that have found "inner peace" or the "holy ghost" have really just given up or have let fear taken over. It would be a lot easier for me to believe in God, then to know that when I die, that's it. I won't see my family in the "afterlife."

So I have come to realize that this "depth" that religious people seem to have, the thing that makes them seem so stoic and full of inner peace, is really just emptiness. A void in their quest for knowledge.

None of this is to say that agnostics are better than religious people. I just think that this void - the void that allows really smart people to believe in god - is a built-in defense mechanism that allows people to get on with their lives.

I didn't sleep much last night...



Emptiness. :thumbsup: It really is pretty simple and you don't have to be a buddhist or a agnostic or any sort of a labeled individual in order to 'get it.' You just 'are.' If that makes sense?

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

Organized religion is the human attempt to "fix" society. That's never going to happen! So we don't have to try so hard.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:09 pm 
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turned2black wrote:
malice wrote:
turned2black wrote:
None of this is to say that agnostics are better than religious people. I just think that this void - the void that allows really smart people to believe in god - is a built-in defense mechanism that allows people to get on with their lives.


I wouldn't disagree, but feel it necessary to note - that's the point of 'belief' - to get on with one's life. If that's what people need to get through- even really smart people, that's fine. If you don't need that, that's fine too. What's not fine is to waste a lot of effort on searching for something to believe in - you either do or don't (unless you're ready to join a cult)
Not wanting to be a dick, just stating an observation.


I don't think the search for some deeper "belief" in life is ever a waste. Even if that "belief" is that science holds all the answers. If we as agnostics shut out everything "spiritual" than we are no better than evangelical christians. I'm not searching for something to believe in, I'm searching for the truth. That's the problem with politics and religion today, everybody seems to know the "truth" even though they have spent very little time searching for it.


ok, but you radiate a tremendous amount of unhappiness in almost everything I've seen you post about - which might lead one to suspect that your quest for something to believe in hasn't been terribly beneficial to you.
Also, I don't know that there ARE any truths other than what you decide is truth. reality is subjective etc etc

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:07 pm 
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[quote="malice"]ok, but you radiate a tremendous amount of unhappiness in almost everything I've seen you post about[quote="malice"]

Examples?

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:29 pm 
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turned2black wrote:
malice wrote:
ok, but you radiate a tremendous amount of unhappiness in almost everything I've seen you post about


Examples?


turned2black wrote:
I couldn't sleep last night... again...



turned2black wrote:
The real problem is that everyone is too goddamn happy right now.


turned2black wrote:
life has left me broken... incapable of true happiness or sadness... just numb... gray... waiting for death.


turned2black wrote:
all of this would really just point to the problems that I have... not enough love from my parents... my own homosexual tendencies... my lack of self worth...


Quote:
Location: A dark place

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:32 pm 
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The most turned2black posts of all time.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:33 pm 
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hell, that collection of posts just depressed me.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:10 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
turned2black wrote:
malice wrote:
ok, but you radiate a tremendous amount of unhappiness in almost everything I've seen you post about


Examples?


turned2black wrote:
I couldn't sleep last night... again...



turned2black wrote:
The real problem is that everyone is too goddamn happy right now.


turned2black wrote:
life has left me broken... incapable of true happiness or sadness... just numb... gray... waiting for death.


turned2black wrote:
all of this would really just point to the problems that I have... not enough love from my parents... my own homosexual tendencies... my lack of self worth...


Quote:
Location: A dark place


5 posts out of how many? Probably 75% of my posts have been reviews of the last 2 albums.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:11 pm 
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New addition:

turned2black wrote:
Probably 75% of my posts have been reviews of the last 2 albums.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:18 pm 
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lock'er up


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:33 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
New addition:

turned2black wrote:
Probably 75% of my posts have been reviews of the last 2 albums.


clever

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:11 pm 
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I'm pretty happy.

Married 18 years.
2 kids with another on the way.
A good job where I get to be creative.
Vacation to Europe most years.
And lots of trail running.

Yeah, pretty happy.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:43 pm 
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There's no point in trying to prove anything. They don't really care.

Congrats on the new addition. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:01 am 
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It's only ever a mistake to try to justify the divine and irreverent nature of a post such as the opening one in this thread. Let the haters hate bro.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:30 am 
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I almost died in June. When I awoke the next morning in the hospital a pastor was there and prayed with me. I think a family member must have asked him to come. It wasn't a big deal to me to pray with this guy, but even though I had almost left this earth the day before I still didn't "get it". Sometimes I wish I did.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:47 am 
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turned2black wrote:
I'm pretty happy.

Married 18 years.
2 kids with another on the way.
A good job where I get to be creative.
Vacation to Europe most years.
And lots of trail running.

Yeah, pretty happy.


great for you. However you exhibit a hidden dark and depressive side right here on this board in many of your posts that gives pause to the reader of such statements.
Search your posts in the release forum, that's some dark expression. Where's that come from if not from a basic unhappiness with one's life.
not to say most people aren't in possession of some variable amount of unhappiness, I'm first in that line - but I don't go out of my way to claim that an ongoing search for belief or my journey to discover the truth has enlightened and enriched me either.
You posted a whole discourse in the global warming thread about how none of that mattered because we're all gonna die in a meteor attack. Why? and ultimately, who cares? You have no greater insights into the future than anyone else, from my perspective, and in many cases, you have less than many people - how do you know that science won't develop some way to eliminate that kind of world destruction? How do you know god won't open up the sky and reign his terrible judgment down upon the world tomorrow? you don't. no one does.
That's how very smart people can believe in god, or the great green polka-dot kangaroo that's balancing the world on his tail right now...
what's it matter, really? It's just a bunch of mental exercise people employ because our brains have developed past the necessity to only care about food, shelter, and potential competitors.
you figure, hell, I have this big fucking brain, might as well, you know, use it?

Whatever, I don't have much of a point other than I do find it somewhat arrogant to proclaim your inner peace in the same breath as your burning desire to believe in something.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm pretty sure there is no god
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:13 am 
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This story tells you all you need to know about this life:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... -accident/

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