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 Post subject: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:29 pm 
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This is a somewhat abstract and preachy post in response to the wise ass shtick of some posters, the understandable despair of others, and the general sense of alienation some people seem to feel about politics. Rather than lay this out piecemeal I thought I'd put it all in one post. I can make aspects of this more concrete if people want.

In most important respects the quality of our democracy is in serious decline. The best recent book on this I’ve read is ‘It’s Even Worse Than It Looks’, by Mann and Ornstein, two of the more respected congressional scholars out there (a republican and a democrat to boot). There’s a lot you can highlight.

-The breakdown in communication norms that makes our non parliamentary system of checks and balances and separated institutions sharing power functional

-the rise of a particularly destructive ideological party (in the last twenty years the Republican party has become 6x more conservative compared to the 2x more liberal change within the democrats, and has moved its conservatism in a particularly virulent and dangerous direction--we’re not at the nazis and communists taking down Weimer Germany level, but we’re moving in that direction)

-rising economic inequality and with it a decline in the relative degree of political agency and influence of most Americans (especially via money spent on lobbying)

- the changing institutional structure of the press and how it affects the information we're given

-the rise of what Suzanne Mettler calls the submerged state, which is a somewhat complicated concept but basically speaks to the way in which our tendency to govern through the tax code makes it difficult to generate public accountability (or even understanding) of the way our government works.

-that’s just a short list.

Things are really bad. They’ve been getting worse for 40 years, and they will not change in just one election. But here’s where knowing a bit of history and a bit of politics is helpful. Things have been this terrible before (in fact they’ve been much worse), and we’ve challenged it and survived. Knowing that we’ve done it in the past is encouraging. Knowing how is useful. Knowing too that things are always kind of bad, kind of like this, is oddly liberating (in the way that an atheist no longer feels burdened by God). Our country is huge and unwieldy and always has been. Even if things are particularly troubling now it’s not like we’ve fallen from grace.

Understanding specifically (at a structural and institutional level) where things go wrong makes it easier to identify who is at fault, what is at fault, and what might hurt or help. Our elections and our electorate focus on policy (as does most of the conversation in this forum), rather than focusing on the conditions under which policy debates take place, even though the later informs the former.

This election wont’ change anything by itself. That’s not because these candidates are terrible. it’s because elections, even consequential ones (and this is a fairly consequential election, but more for Republicans than Democrats given the changing demographics of our electorate) are only one small part of the larger web. Thinking that one vote changes everything reflects a lack of understanding about the political process. So does being resentful that it won’t. This is a long game. This is a personal aside, but I remember getting calls after Obama was elected in 2008 and people asking me how excited I was. Of course I was excited that he won, but I remember watching the aftermath and thinking that everyone expects Obama to snap his fingers and that everything will be okay, and there will be a lot of disappointed people in 2012 as they discover that politics doesn't work that way. And that was before the Republicans formally adopted their scorched earth opposition tactics.

But that’s not to say that the results of 2012 won’t greatly impact the lives of hundreds of millions of people, and the disposition of trillions of dollars is at stake. The sequestration thread should make that clear. The results matter, even if they won’t be transformative. Transformative politics includes elections, but what happens afterwards and in between is more important.

In the face of all this certain emotional responses are more useful, sensible, and/or intelligent than others.

Cynicism vs. skepticism

Cynicism: An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others:

Cynicism reduces politics to ‘everyone is a crook and no one can be trusted’. That happens to be incorrect, at least in general (obviously some are actual crooks). Our leaders act like they do because the circumstances under which they have to act require some behaviors, encourage others , prohibit others, and all the rest. Our leaders are usually as good as our system allows them to be. A cynical posture fundamentally oversimplifies and misunderstands the nature of why our politics works the way it does. It is lazy thinking, made slightly more annoying by the attendant smugness that usually follows.

Skepticism: A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind;
This is a much healthier position. We are all better off if we learn to doubt first, but skepticism lacks the reflexive dismissiveness of cynicism while imposing standards of proof and evidence on our leaders. We don’t believe what we’re told just because we’re told it, but we don’t’ deny the possibility of good will. This is particularly important since, in order for our political system to function, we have to postulate that this can potentially exist and foster an environment where it is possible. If we had parliaments this would be less of a big deal.

Idealism vs. Naivete

Idealism: The tendency to represent things in their ideal forms, rather than as they are
If we cannot imagine the world we want to live in--if we don’t have ends we are striving to achieve, we have nothing to work for. All that is left is the competitive struggle to grasp what we can now. That has always there, but throughout history it has been clawed back and tempered by people who wanted something more. Everything worthwhile about the society we live in was fought for by people who demanded something better. That takes idealism.

Naiveté: The state or quality of being inexperienced or unsophisticated, especially in being artless, credulous, or uncritical.

Idealism is a fighting philosophy. Naiveté is an dull expectation that things will just somehow naturally get better because I would really like them to, or, an equally uncritical and passive assumption that things will never get better because they can’t. Both forms demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of how politics works, as well as an ignorance of history.

Anger vs. apathy

I will assume that these words don’t require definition. We are socialized into a state of learned helplessness in all sorts of ways. The dominant message of our culture is that you don’t matter, you can’t change anything, at least when it comes to politics (curiously enough we have almost the exact opposite philosophy when it comes to economics--but part of our problems come from the fact that we artificially separate the two). Or, understandably, some people feel like the only sensible thing to do in the face of what is arrayed against them is to withdraw, or they are too tired or beaten down to care anymore.

This is precisely what many people in power want you to think , and how they want you to feel. it is the single most important tool of social control in their arsenal, even if it is not always used self-consciously. It is deeply embedded enough that it naturally reproduces itself. When you are able to stare everything arrayed against you in the face and decide that the current state of affairs is simply unacceptable, and when you get pissed off enough about it, things start to change. That’s why so much time and effort and money is spent working to make sure people don’t awaken to their own power.

That’s not an easy process. It takes time, is never complete, and the forces arrayed against it are very very strong, and they do not sleep. But they can be beaten. They have been many many times before, and they work so hard to hold onto their power because they know how vulnerable they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:27 am 
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is this aimed at me stip?


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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:34 am 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
is this aimed at me stip?

all of us, Skitch. all of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:48 am 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
is this aimed at me stip?


probably not. You tend to be the only person who can do everything I find annoying without actually being annoying.

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"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:15 am 
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A good first step would be to stop nuthugging Obama.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:07 am 
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stip wrote:
agency

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:11 am 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
agency

Ha.


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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:24 am 
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I just ordered the book stip mentions here.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:30 am 
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it's a pretty awesome book.

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"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:00 pm 
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It was one of two books I ordered to take with me on vacation. I fly to Scotland on Thursday.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:05 pm 
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I read a book that stip recommended once and it was a very good, informative book. Thanks stip.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:09 pm 
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What else have you read?

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Hemingway, for one.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:19 pm 
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spenno wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
agency

Ha.


11 years in this place and that's my legacy

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:13 pm 
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stip wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
is this aimed at me stip?


probably not. You tend to be the only person who can do everything I find annoying without actually being annoying.

:heartbeat: :heartbeat: :heartbeat:


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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:19 pm 
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I feel like I lean towards embraced apathy.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:37 pm 
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I was in newspapers for 15 years. For about 10 of those years I was on the Editorial Board and occasionally wrote opinion pieces.
I'm no longer in newspapers and I'm happily embracing apathy.

Eddie sums it up nicely:
"All the bills go by, and
Initiatives are taken up
By the middle, there ain't gonna be any middle any more"

There is no middle anymore. There's no place for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:19 pm 
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knee tunes wrote:
I feel like I lean towards embraced apathy.

welcome to enlightenment.

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Quote:
We are socialized into a state of learned helplessness in all sorts of ways. - Stip


What do you expect with the blithe pablum of "centralized planning vs. nihilism" arguments coming from the Democratic Party? If you want to reform social security you want seniors to die, if you want a voucher system for medicare you want seniors to die, if you don't support the auto bailouts you create zero jobs instead of 250,000. If you don't support wind and solar you want the world to burn and be a place of calamitous natural disasters. If you support school vouchers, you want kids to be dumb and uneducated. If you don't support Obama's socialization of student loans then you don't want people to get a college education. If you don't support food stamps you want children to starve. If you don't support right to work, you want America to be like 18th century France. If you don't support the minimum wage, you want people to be homeless and starve.

See what I did there?

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 Post subject: Re: Cynicism, skepticism, idealism, naiveté, anger, and apathy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:47 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
Quote:
We are socialized into a state of learned helplessness in all sorts of ways. - Stip


What do you expect with the blithe pablum of "centralized planning vs. nihilism" arguments coming from the Democratic Party? If you want to reform social security you want seniors to die, if you want a voucher system for medicare you want seniors to die, if you don't support the auto bailouts you create zero jobs instead of 250,000. If you don't support wind and solar you want the world to burn and be a place of calamitous natural disasters. If you support school vouchers, you want kids to be dumb and uneducated. If you don't support Obama's socialization of student loans then you don't want people to get a college education. If you don't support food stamps you want children to starve. If you don't support right to work, you want America to be like 18th century France. If you don't support the minimum wage, you want people to be homeless and starve.

See what I did there?


Did you feed a starving cat tuna?

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